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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by onemandown72 on Jan 21, 2009 11:54:19 GMT 1, Guy, I agree with most of your post , but I'm not really sure that Blair can be blamed for what (The wicked witch) Thatcher has left any of us!! SHE sold f**king every f**king thing as quick as she could? Privatisation (is that a word now?) was everything sell short, and short profit. Ring any bells? I agree Labour have done crap, but what the hell can they do if there's nothing to trade/sell? Although I'd blame everything on Thatcher (3 million plus on the dole, Selling Nucs, Selling Arms (Or was that her son?), Slavery, the f**king end of the world), I'm sure in a way her or her family have caused most of these. As I'm sure you know I'm loving the Thach!!! One day she'll be brought to justice!! Peace JA The thing that people tend to forget was that when Thatcher took over Britain was in a state due a great deal to, but not entirely to, the previous government. She took over in a period of global recession and had to pull it round. This was impossible to do immediately and because there was no immediate changed she was lambasted from many quarters for it. All of a sudden she was the one held responsible for all the economy's ills of the previous 20 or so years. People need to differentiate between opinion/heresay and facts. Just looking at the economy she took over when it was at the bottom and revitalised it, doing what was necessary to pull Britain out of the recession that we were in. Yes she upset people in the process, but a great leader is one who can put the county first and their popularity last. Yes there was high unemployment in her time, but things don't change overnight, what she did was pave the way for the country to become an economic power again, for example her stance with the trade unions, while a major factor in her unpopularity was 100% needed. She took the country and fixed it, getting no thanks for it... Mr Blair and Mr Brown have managed to take it back to almost where we were in 1979 again, so maybe it's time for another strong leader to come in and sort us out, they won't be liked, but someone has to do it. Of course she makes mistakes, everyone does, you can't rule for the amount of time she did without them, but her legacy is a distinctly positive one. Mr Obama and whoever takes over here next needs to realise that if you put your country before your popularity then things can be fixed... good luck to him
Mike, Thatcher destroyed the family unit and glorified wealth to a level never seen before, amongst other things her legacy was the pursuit of money and capital at the expense of social welfare and community concern.
Yes she reduced the power of the Unions, a much needed step forwards, but could it have been done in a more balanced fashion?
She oversaw the underfunding of the NHS to an unbeliveably unacceptable level, as she did with education, sold off social housing under the guise of everybody having a right to own their home. These homes where there not for personal ownership, and resultant profit but to provide an affordable roof over those who couldn't afford a home, yet needed a place to live.
She also went to war over the Falklands when it looked pretty shaky if she'd get voted back in again, and no different from the Argentinians who went to war for the same reason, but a war to keep her in power of the back of jingoistic nationalism.
She nurtured the rise of Murdoch and his over-reaching control of the media in this country
I'm not defending the legacy of Brown & Blair, but Thatcher was all about greed and the individual. As a society we don't live in isolation, and if you look at the parents of the current "ASBO" generation, and the attitude of spend now save later, they are all products of Thatchers Britain. That is her legacy, and she did anything but fix or save Britain
Guy, I agree with most of your post , but I'm not really sure that Blair can be blamed for what (The wicked witch) Thatcher has left any of us!! SHE sold f**king every f**king thing as quick as she could? Privatisation (is that a word now?) was everything sell short, and short profit. Ring any bells? I agree Labour have done crap, but what the hell can they do if there's nothing to trade/sell? Although I'd blame everything on Thatcher (3 million plus on the dole, Selling Nucs, Selling Arms (Or was that her son?), Slavery, the f**king end of the world), I'm sure in a way her or her family have caused most of these. As I'm sure you know I'm loving the Thach!!! One day she'll be brought to justice!! Peace JA The thing that people tend to forget was that when Thatcher took over Britain was in a state due a great deal to, but not entirely to, the previous government. She took over in a period of global recession and had to pull it round. This was impossible to do immediately and because there was no immediate changed she was lambasted from many quarters for it. All of a sudden she was the one held responsible for all the economy's ills of the previous 20 or so years. People need to differentiate between opinion/heresay and facts. Just looking at the economy she took over when it was at the bottom and revitalised it, doing what was necessary to pull Britain out of the recession that we were in. Yes she upset people in the process, but a great leader is one who can put the county first and their popularity last. Yes there was high unemployment in her time, but things don't change overnight, what she did was pave the way for the country to become an economic power again, for example her stance with the trade unions, while a major factor in her unpopularity was 100% needed. She took the country and fixed it, getting no thanks for it... Mr Blair and Mr Brown have managed to take it back to almost where we were in 1979 again, so maybe it's time for another strong leader to come in and sort us out, they won't be liked, but someone has to do it. Of course she makes mistakes, everyone does, you can't rule for the amount of time she did without them, but her legacy is a distinctly positive one. Mr Obama and whoever takes over here next needs to realise that if you put your country before your popularity then things can be fixed... good luck to him Mike, Thatcher destroyed the family unit and glorified wealth to a level never seen before, amongst other things her legacy was the pursuit of money and capital at the expense of social welfare and community concern. Yes she reduced the power of the Unions, a much needed step forwards, but could it have been done in a more balanced fashion? She oversaw the underfunding of the NHS to an unbeliveably unacceptable level, as she did with education, sold off social housing under the guise of everybody having a right to own their home. These homes where there not for personal ownership, and resultant profit but to provide an affordable roof over those who couldn't afford a home, yet needed a place to live. She also went to war over the Falklands when it looked pretty shaky if she'd get voted back in again, and no different from the Argentinians who went to war for the same reason, but a war to keep her in power of the back of jingoistic nationalism. She nurtured the rise of Murdoch and his over-reaching control of the media in this country I'm not defending the legacy of Brown & Blair, but Thatcher was all about greed and the individual. As a society we don't live in isolation, and if you look at the parents of the current "ASBO" generation, and the attitude of spend now save later, they are all products of Thatchers Britain. That is her legacy, and she did anything but fix or save Britain |
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,833
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March 2007
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by curiousgeorge on Jan 21, 2009 13:36:05 GMT 1, I know it's good to see the other election-thieving, war-mongering dufus gone, but... in all this post-Obama euphoria - remember the inane grins on the British faces when we got rid of the Tories? We thought Blair would be someone to remember; we weren't wrong. I hope he does achieve his health-care reforms, upturn the f**kedup economic situation and pull the forces back behind his own national borders. But there's a big machine behind government - driven by multi-national industry and finance. All the good intentions in the world won't change a bloody thing. If I'm wrong in four/eight years time please get in an orderly queue to tell me the world told me so. I really would dearly love to be a less cynical b@stard.
This struck a chord with me, i caught up with the ceremony online late last night. People were being interviewed from the crowds and they were all saying real change is coming etc,etc
It might seem obvious but to me people are expecting this one man to bring around great change, when in fact it's the individuals that create and make the changes happen?
Don't get me wrong i think it's a massive step in a positive direction
I know it's good to see the other election-thieving, war-mongering dufus gone, but... in all this post-Obama euphoria - remember the inane grins on the British faces when we got rid of the Tories? We thought Blair would be someone to remember; we weren't wrong. I hope he does achieve his health-care reforms, upturn the f**kedup economic situation and pull the forces back behind his own national borders. But there's a big machine behind government - driven by multi-national industry and finance. All the good intentions in the world won't change a bloody thing. If I'm wrong in four/eight years time please get in an orderly queue to tell me the world told me so. I really would dearly love to be a less cynical b@stard. This struck a chord with me, i caught up with the ceremony online late last night. People were being interviewed from the crowds and they were all saying real change is coming etc,etc It might seem obvious but to me people are expecting this one man to bring around great change, when in fact it's the individuals that create and make the changes happen? Don't get me wrong i think it's a massive step in a positive direction |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by angel41 on Jan 21, 2009 13:51:44 GMT 1, Let's face it, Obama can't be worse than Bush, he at least appears to have a brain of some description. I totally agree with Guy that the government is huge beast that can only be changed to a certain extent. I think people may be expecting a little too much.
Let's face it, Obama can't be worse than Bush, he at least appears to have a brain of some description. I totally agree with Guy that the government is huge beast that can only be changed to a certain extent. I think people may be expecting a little too much.
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by Deleted on Jan 21, 2009 15:02:01 GMT 1, great advert in today's Metro ;D ;D ;D 
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
great advert in today's Metro ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by Deleted on Jan 21, 2009 15:06:09 GMT 1, i bet Obama goes grey within a year
i bet Obama goes grey within a year
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Guy Denning
Artist
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July 2007
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by Guy Denning on Jan 21, 2009 15:50:53 GMT 1, The Labour Party weren't solely responsible for the seventies. They lost the 1970 election
and the Conservatives were in power until 1974.
And I've never held with the idea of a big, bad 'the unions' media monster. The unions are made of ordinary people, they're not independent of them - despite the portrayal. I've been an active trade unionist all my working life and I've friends who were that generation of union officials that are frequently portrayed as 'the enemy within'.
When Labour came back to power (on promises of increased public sector spending) it faced a plummeting pound and in 1976 had to request a loan from the International Monetary Fund. The nature of the IMF (pro-business, right-wing and hostile to worker-rights and public sector spending) meant that it imposed strict conditions on government spending. The Labour government had no option (but had it been a Conservative government there's a good chance it would have got the money no strings) but the unions (and their membership) rejected government requests to restrain demands for higher pay. Then we had the series of strikes and the so-called โwinter of discontentโ of 1978 to 1979.
The emasculation of the unions has been so strong in the UK that they are now virtually toothless. This is not a good thing. There are very few areas where the truly voiceless have had power - unionism is one of them. Despite all the whinging about unions in the UK it's generally forgotten that it was their campaigns that brought a great many of the working, holiday, health, equality, pension and disability rights taken for granted today. And contrary to popular reporting it's VERY difficult to get a work force to strike - believe me.
The Labour Party weren't solely responsible for the seventies. They lost the 1970 election
and the Conservatives were in power until 1974.
And I've never held with the idea of a big, bad 'the unions' media monster. The unions are made of ordinary people, they're not independent of them - despite the portrayal. I've been an active trade unionist all my working life and I've friends who were that generation of union officials that are frequently portrayed as 'the enemy within'.
When Labour came back to power (on promises of increased public sector spending) it faced a plummeting pound and in 1976 had to request a loan from the International Monetary Fund. The nature of the IMF (pro-business, right-wing and hostile to worker-rights and public sector spending) meant that it imposed strict conditions on government spending. The Labour government had no option (but had it been a Conservative government there's a good chance it would have got the money no strings) but the unions (and their membership) rejected government requests to restrain demands for higher pay. Then we had the series of strikes and the so-called โwinter of discontentโ of 1978 to 1979.
The emasculation of the unions has been so strong in the UK that they are now virtually toothless. This is not a good thing. There are very few areas where the truly voiceless have had power - unionism is one of them. Despite all the whinging about unions in the UK it's generally forgotten that it was their campaigns that brought a great many of the working, holiday, health, equality, pension and disability rights taken for granted today. And contrary to popular reporting it's VERY difficult to get a work force to strike - believe me.
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by rhodesy2112 on Jan 21, 2009 16:18:57 GMT 1, The Labour Party weren't solely responsible for the seventies. They lost the 1970 election and the Conservatives were in power until 1974. And I've never held with the idea of a big, bad 'the unions' media monster. The unions are made of ordinary people, they're not independent of them - despite the portrayal. I've been an active trade unionist all my working life and I've friends who were that generation of union officials that are frequently portrayed as 'the enemy within'. When Labour came back to power (on promises of increased public sector spending) it faced a plummeting pound and in 1976 had to request a loan from the International Monetary Fund. The nature of the IMF (pro-business, right-wing and hostile to worker-rights and public sector spending) meant that it imposed strict conditions on government spending. The Labour government had no option (but had it been a Conservative government there's a good chance it would have got the money no strings) but the unions (and their membership) rejected government requests to restrain demands for higher pay. Then we had the series of strikes and the so-called โwinter of discontentโ of 1978 to 1979. The emasculation of the unions has been so strong in the UK that they are now virtually toothless. This is not a good thing. There are very few areas where the truly voiceless have had power - unionism is one of them. Despite all the whinging about unions in the UK it's generally forgotten that it was their campaigns that brought a great many of the working, holiday, health, equality, pension and disability rights taken for granted today. And contrary to popular reporting it's VERY difficult to get a work force to strike - believe me.
And let's wait and see how quickly the shit trickles down to those ordinary people trying to eek out a living on "normal" wages. There are gonna be mass redundancies, erosion of working conditions and wholesale rewriting of employment contracts. Tick tock...it's already happening. Who's going to be there fighting for members (and non members in many cases) The unions
The Labour Party weren't solely responsible for the seventies. They lost the 1970 election and the Conservatives were in power until 1974. And I've never held with the idea of a big, bad 'the unions' media monster. The unions are made of ordinary people, they're not independent of them - despite the portrayal. I've been an active trade unionist all my working life and I've friends who were that generation of union officials that are frequently portrayed as 'the enemy within'. When Labour came back to power (on promises of increased public sector spending) it faced a plummeting pound and in 1976 had to request a loan from the International Monetary Fund. The nature of the IMF (pro-business, right-wing and hostile to worker-rights and public sector spending) meant that it imposed strict conditions on government spending. The Labour government had no option (but had it been a Conservative government there's a good chance it would have got the money no strings) but the unions (and their membership) rejected government requests to restrain demands for higher pay. Then we had the series of strikes and the so-called โwinter of discontentโ of 1978 to 1979. The emasculation of the unions has been so strong in the UK that they are now virtually toothless. This is not a good thing. There are very few areas where the truly voiceless have had power - unionism is one of them. Despite all the whinging about unions in the UK it's generally forgotten that it was their campaigns that brought a great many of the working, holiday, health, equality, pension and disability rights taken for granted today. And contrary to popular reporting it's VERY difficult to get a work force to strike - believe me. And let's wait and see how quickly the shit trickles down to those ordinary people trying to eek out a living on "normal" wages. There are gonna be mass redundancies, erosion of working conditions and wholesale rewriting of employment contracts. Tick tock...it's already happening. Who's going to be there fighting for members (and non members in many cases) The unions |
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goffy
Junior Member
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November 2006
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by goffy on Jan 21, 2009 18:12:45 GMT 1, great post Mike! (bloody hell can you get any more stars?)
No it is not a great post.
Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) He seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to Thatcher and what she did to this country. Onemandown and Guy have given you a more honest assessment of what it was like under Thatcher. Like I said earlier, I work in the NHS and Thatcher nearly destroyed it, she pitted not only hospital against hospital but ward against ward. Nurse recruitment went down as schools of nursing were closed leaving the NHS understaffed and dependent on foreign nurses. Yes something needed to be done in this country, the Pistols never sang about 'No Future' for nothing but all Thatcher did was promote greed and a 'Me' culture.
great post Mike! (bloody hell can you get any more stars?) No it is not a great post. Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) He seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to Thatcher and what she did to this country. Onemandown and Guy have given you a more honest assessment of what it was like under Thatcher. Like I said earlier, I work in the NHS and Thatcher nearly destroyed it, she pitted not only hospital against hospital but ward against ward. Nurse recruitment went down as schools of nursing were closed leaving the NHS understaffed and dependent on foreign nurses. Yes something needed to be done in this country, the Pistols never sang about 'No Future' for nothing but all Thatcher did was promote greed and a 'Me' culture. |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by rhodesy2112 on Jan 21, 2009 20:07:48 GMT 1, Guy, I agree with most of your post , but I'm not really sure that Blair can be blamed for what (The wicked witch) Thatcher has left any of us!! SHE sold f**king every f**king thing as quick as she could? Privatisation (is that a word now?) was everything sell short, and short profit. Ring any bells? I agree Labour have done crap, but what the hell can they do if there's nothing to trade/sell? Although I'd blame everything on Thatcher (3 million plus on the dole, Selling Nucs, Selling Arms (Or was that her son?), Slavery, the f**king end of the world), I'm sure in a way her or her family have caused most of these. As I'm sure you know I'm loving the Thach!!! One day she'll be brought to justice!! Peace JA The thing that people tend to forget was that when Thatcher took over Britain was in a state due a great deal to, but not entirely to, the previous government. She took over in a period of global recession and had to pull it round. This was impossible to do immediately and because there was no immediate changed she was lambasted from many quarters for it. All of a sudden she was the one held responsible for all the economy's ills of the previous 20 or so years. People need to differentiate between opinion/heresay and facts. Just looking at the economy she took over when it was at the bottom and revitalised it, doing what was necessary to pull Britain out of the recession that we were in. Yes she upset people in the process, but a great leader is one who can put the county first and their popularity last. Yes there was high unemployment in her time, but things don't change overnight, what she did was pave the way for the country to become an economic power again, for example her stance with the trade unions, while a major factor in her unpopularity was 100% needed. She took the country and fixed it, getting no thanks for it... Mr Blair and Mr Brown have managed to take it back to almost where we were in 1979 again, so maybe it's time for another strong leader to come in and sort us out, they won't be liked, but someone has to do it. Of course she makes mistakes, everyone does, you can't rule for the amount of time she did without them, but her legacy is a distinctly positive one. Mr Obama and whoever takes over here next needs to realise that if you put your country before your popularity then things can be fixed... good luck to him
What an absolute load of toss. Thatcher did not "take the country and fix it", she created the quagmire we are in now. She destroyed our industries, leaving us with no meaningful means of export other than financial institutions...and look where that has got us. She manipulated everyones desire for more, and to be upwardly mobile, and sold us a dud. That if you spend spend spend, then you only have to tell yourself that you are middle class to be so.
As for sorting our economy, it was her government that set the scene for Black Wednesday, and her economic reforms that led to 3 million unemployed...so hardly an impressive economic CV.
You can't defend the indefensible.....
Guy, I agree with most of your post , but I'm not really sure that Blair can be blamed for what (The wicked witch) Thatcher has left any of us!! SHE sold f**king every f**king thing as quick as she could? Privatisation (is that a word now?) was everything sell short, and short profit. Ring any bells? I agree Labour have done crap, but what the hell can they do if there's nothing to trade/sell? Although I'd blame everything on Thatcher (3 million plus on the dole, Selling Nucs, Selling Arms (Or was that her son?), Slavery, the f**king end of the world), I'm sure in a way her or her family have caused most of these. As I'm sure you know I'm loving the Thach!!! One day she'll be brought to justice!! Peace JA The thing that people tend to forget was that when Thatcher took over Britain was in a state due a great deal to, but not entirely to, the previous government. She took over in a period of global recession and had to pull it round. This was impossible to do immediately and because there was no immediate changed she was lambasted from many quarters for it. All of a sudden she was the one held responsible for all the economy's ills of the previous 20 or so years. People need to differentiate between opinion/heresay and facts. Just looking at the economy she took over when it was at the bottom and revitalised it, doing what was necessary to pull Britain out of the recession that we were in. Yes she upset people in the process, but a great leader is one who can put the county first and their popularity last. Yes there was high unemployment in her time, but things don't change overnight, what she did was pave the way for the country to become an economic power again, for example her stance with the trade unions, while a major factor in her unpopularity was 100% needed. She took the country and fixed it, getting no thanks for it... Mr Blair and Mr Brown have managed to take it back to almost where we were in 1979 again, so maybe it's time for another strong leader to come in and sort us out, they won't be liked, but someone has to do it. Of course she makes mistakes, everyone does, you can't rule for the amount of time she did without them, but her legacy is a distinctly positive one. Mr Obama and whoever takes over here next needs to realise that if you put your country before your popularity then things can be fixed... good luck to him What an absolute load of toss. Thatcher did not "take the country and fix it", she created the quagmire we are in now. She destroyed our industries, leaving us with no meaningful means of export other than financial institutions...and look where that has got us. She manipulated everyones desire for more, and to be upwardly mobile, and sold us a dud. That if you spend spend spend, then you only have to tell yourself that you are middle class to be so. As for sorting our economy, it was her government that set the scene for Black Wednesday, and her economic reforms that led to 3 million unemployed...so hardly an impressive economic CV. You can't defend the indefensible..... |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by manchestermike on Jan 22, 2009 9:48:12 GMT 1, Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan)
As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago.
Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago. |
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jon11
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 392
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June 2007
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by jon11 on Jan 22, 2009 10:39:07 GMT 1, plates - talk to me
(sorry for the lack of political insight - barrack in woop woop! - i'm hitting LA at the weekend will bring back the wittiest tshirt i can find on venice beach)
plates - talk to me
(sorry for the lack of political insight - barrack in woop woop! - i'm hitting LA at the weekend will bring back the wittiest tshirt i can find on venice beach)
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welshboy
New Member
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January 2008
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by welshboy on Jan 22, 2009 11:00:33 GMT 1, Anyone is better than bush.Gorden brown next.hopefully,tosser
Anyone is better than bush.Gorden brown next.hopefully,tosser
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goffy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,401
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November 2006
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by goffy on Jan 22, 2009 16:52:20 GMT 1, Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago.
Mike,
Judging by your earlier post I doubt your opinion is based on fact ie 'Thatcher fixed this country' She just fuked it up in another way.You say you also base your opinions based on policies which were obviously Thatcherite tory policies. You are entitled to your opinion and to vote for whoever you think worthy of your vote. But don't come the high and mighty, like you are the only one who actually thinks before they vote and the rest of us follow like sheep are cloth cap wearing forefathers. That is just ignorant. My hatred of Thatcher is based on fact, the effect her government had on me, my family, friends and city.
Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago. Mike, Judging by your earlier post I doubt your opinion is based on fact ie 'Thatcher fixed this country' She just fuked it up in another way.You say you also base your opinions based on policies which were obviously Thatcherite tory policies. You are entitled to your opinion and to vote for whoever you think worthy of your vote. But don't come the high and mighty, like you are the only one who actually thinks before they vote and the rest of us follow like sheep are cloth cap wearing forefathers. That is just ignorant. My hatred of Thatcher is based on fact, the effect her government had on me, my family, friends and city. |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by Daniel Silk on Jan 22, 2009 18:06:10 GMT 1, Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago.
Well said! 
This is 2009
Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago. Well said! This is 2009 |
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goffy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,401
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November 2006
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by goffy on Jan 22, 2009 19:53:33 GMT 1, Ignorance is spreading. 
Ignorance is spreading. |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by hellomum on Jan 22, 2009 21:04:03 GMT 1, The past makes the present, what happened in 1979,1989 & 1999 will dictate what happens in 2009.
For one, I am fed up of the choice between evil and lesser evil. I don't believe we should have the misfortune of choosing Cameron, Brown, or Clegg for that matter. We the people deserve much better, Thankfully democracy is not about; every 4 years sticking a cross on a bit of paper and shoving it in a box, it is about what we do in those 4 years that matter most.
The system is intrinsically sick, a three party parliamentary system of career yes men where only the colours red, blue or yellow blur political lines significantly, is not the cure.
Our basic rights we hold dear yet take for granted, have all be won by us, never given to us. If we are to forge, change and shape a better world for our sons and daughters we will have to fight for it. Pinning your hopes on The Thacher's, Brown's, Bliar's, Milliband's, Cameron's or Obama's of this world is not what history tells us.
Use your democracy, take part, debate, protest, be part of the future, make history.
On another note Robert Fisk in today's Independent hits the nail firmly on the head.
www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-so-far-obamas-missed-the-point-on-gaza-1488632.html
The past makes the present, what happened in 1979,1989 & 1999 will dictate what happens in 2009. For one, I am fed up of the choice between evil and lesser evil. I don't believe we should have the misfortune of choosing Cameron, Brown, or Clegg for that matter. We the people deserve much better, Thankfully democracy is not about; every 4 years sticking a cross on a bit of paper and shoving it in a box, it is about what we do in those 4 years that matter most. The system is intrinsically sick, a three party parliamentary system of career yes men where only the colours red, blue or yellow blur political lines significantly, is not the cure. Our basic rights we hold dear yet take for granted, have all be won by us, never given to us. If we are to forge, change and shape a better world for our sons and daughters we will have to fight for it. Pinning your hopes on The Thacher's, Brown's, Bliar's, Milliband's, Cameron's or Obama's of this world is not what history tells us. Use your democracy, take part, debate, protest, be part of the future, make history. On another note Robert Fisk in today's Independent hits the nail firmly on the head. www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-so-far-obamas-missed-the-point-on-gaza-1488632.html |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by junkieart on Jan 22, 2009 23:34:22 GMT 1, As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago. Well said! This is 2009
Ummm, better for you? Not everyone, now consider the rest of the population, let alone the world ! Anyway if you live that insular world then fair enough, I have no problem with that.
Peace JA
As I've said before, and will probably say again. I have no allegiance to ANY political party. I will vote for who I think is right at the time due to their policies etc... for example my local by-election is next week and I will be voting Liberal Democrat because I believe the policies they have put forward are better for the local area. In the next general election I will vote for whoever I feel has the best policies. I'm not one of these people whose "dad voted labour, his dad voted labour so damn it I'll vote labour and death to Thatcher" I have an opinion of history based on fact rather than deep rooted hatred of someone, and I have an opinion of political parties based on their policies now and not 20/30+ years ago. Well said! This is 2009 Ummm, better for you? Not everyone, now consider the rest of the population, let alone the world ! Anyway if you live that insular world then fair enough, I have no problem with that. Peace JA |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by junkieart on Jan 22, 2009 23:50:43 GMT 1, Totally agree Mr Goffy...
Totally agree Mr Goffy...
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by LEVI C on Jan 23, 2009 0:11:57 GMT 1, great post Mike! (bloody hell can you get any more stars?) No it is not a great post. Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) He seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to Thatcher and what she did to this country. Onemandown and Guy have given you a more honest assessment of what it was like under Thatcher. Like I said earlier, I work in the NHS and Thatcher nearly destroyed it, she pitted not only hospital against hospital but ward against ward. Nurse recruitment went down as schools of nursing were closed leaving the NHS understaffed and dependent on foreign nurses. Yes something needed to be done in this country, the Pistols never sang about 'No Future' for nothing but all Thatcher did was promote greed and a 'Me' culture.
errmmm..okie dokie ;D this shits too heavy for me man, i'll just shut up i think
great post Mike! (bloody hell can you get any more stars?) No it is not a great post. Mike is an out and out Tory (what do you expect of a Man U fan) He seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to Thatcher and what she did to this country. Onemandown and Guy have given you a more honest assessment of what it was like under Thatcher. Like I said earlier, I work in the NHS and Thatcher nearly destroyed it, she pitted not only hospital against hospital but ward against ward. Nurse recruitment went down as schools of nursing were closed leaving the NHS understaffed and dependent on foreign nurses. Yes something needed to be done in this country, the Pistols never sang about 'No Future' for nothing but all Thatcher did was promote greed and a 'Me' culture. errmmm..okie dokie ;D this shits too heavy for me man, i'll just shut up i think |
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Barack Obama - The 44th President, by junkieart on Jan 23, 2009 0:18:36 GMT 1, Yep thats good thinking me thinks :-)
Yep thats good thinking me thinks :-)
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The unions
