Banksy • The Village Pet Store and Charcoal Grill

[abc]

I mean, I'll take one for free (and you're very generous to give it to a friend). But when it comes to money, perhaps a certain caution might be warranted.

[storm breaker]

Jog on abc I'm hardly going to be retiring to the Seychelles selling an old banksy business card for £75.

Clearly you have an issue with me as I questioned your advertising of an artsy auction on here for an auction company nobody had heard of yet miraculously has over 13k following on Instagram even before it's first auction. Interesting that you never responded when I asked if the auction anything to do with you.

[loui]

Jun 14, 2024 16:11:35 GMT 1 storm breaker said:

As title

Banksy 

I hate Mondays 

The Village Pet Store and Grill business card

£75 plus postage and fees

What is the size of this business card?

[storm breaker]

3.5 x 2 inch

[Adam The Collector]

Wonderfully depressing

[abc]

Stormbreaker, it seems that you're the one who can't seem to take it when the shoe is on the other foot.

I don't have a problem with you questioning my earlier auction post because you had an interesting viewpoint which I think deserved to be aired. However, when I question your post regarding the authenticity of what you're selling, you resort to personal attacks towards me. 

Perhaps you should be more professional and maybe try to respond to my question: how can we be sure the card you're selling is authentic? Did you get them from Banksy himself? Authenticity might not be important to you, but as a COLLECTOR, this is rather important; it also goes to your credibility on this forum (and to your clients worldwide).

If you can't prove what you're selling is genuine, maybe you should keep it for yourself, rather than pass the doubt onto other members of the forum.

[abc]

And Stormbreaker, to respond to your earlier question, the auction that I posted had nothing to do with me; I did not organize it nor did/do profit from it in any way. 

Unlike this sale which you clearly have a vested interest in.

And the issue now is clearly larger than just the "card" you're selling. I'm questioning your integrity as a seller on this forum. Please do not bully me or other members on this forum when you don't like the question asked.

[abc]

I just have a problem with sellers thinking they can't be held accountable just because the art they're selling is priced cheaply. This is the same problem regarding the $50 di-faced tenners on ebay (or the $100 "bargain" banksy spraycans) that fraudsters make/sell on ebay, in the auction houses, and on this forum.

[abc]

Also, what if an unsuspecting member buys your art (believing it to be real), then sells it on? And then this member gets contacted by the police for selling a fake? Would you then voluntarily fly in from England to take the blame?

I'm not saying that yours is a authentic or fake (as there is absolutely no evidence either way.

What I'm saying is that we have a RESPONSIBILITY to the things we say or sell.

[Lroy]

Jun 15, 2024 18:19:03 GMT 1 abc said:

But there's really no way to know, is there? Banksy has a huge following, so there's always a market for "cheap" ephemera for people who don't know better. I mean, just type Banksy in ebay and you'll get all sorts of stuff coming up. So at the end of the day, it's caveat emptor.

At the différence that on eBay, we mostly know what is fake or not ( Dismaland things per ex )

[abc]

Je ne comprends pas. I don't get it.

Shouldn't it be the other way round? I mean at least you can get your money back if a fake is being sold on ebay? So there would be MORE buyers protection on ebay than here.

[abc]

BTW, Llroy, I love Agent Provocateur too and I think it's great you gifted your art to him. 

[ck1]

Is my forum broken?
How is it that the last 7 of 8 posts on this thread are from the same guy with 28 total posts. He must be replying to someone right? Not just talking to himself?

[abc]

Ck1, I don't get why the number of posts have anything to do with the actual points made here. 

Shouldn't we be answering the actual question at hand? Namely that there is a real RISK for buyers on this forum when sellers refuse/fail to prove the authenticity of the art sold?

[abc]

Jun 16, 2024 14:40:51 GMT 1 ck1 said:

Is my forum broken?
How is it that the last 7 of 8 posts on this thread are from the same guy with 28 total posts. He must be replying to someone right? Not just talking to himself?I don't have as many posts as you, but I certainly have been on the forum at least as long as you. 

So my point is, the number of posts or the number of years a member had been in this forum is irrelevant. We should be more welcoming to members irrespective of the number of their posts.

Which ironically is exactly why Stormbreaker busted my balls with my posts (he dismissed me because I had less posts than him).

[ck1]

Jun 17, 2024 0:40:30 GMT 1 abc said:

Jun 16, 2024 14:40:51 GMT 1 ck1 said:

Is my forum broken?
How is it that the last 7 of 8 posts on this thread are from the same guy with 28 total posts. He must be replying to someone right? Not just talking to himself?I don't have as many posts as you, but I certainly have been on the forum at least as long as you. 

So my point is, the number of posts or the number of years a member had been in this forum is irrelevant. We should be more welcoming to members irrespective of the number of their posts.

Which ironically is exactly why Stormbreaker busted my balls with my posts (he dismissed me because I had less posts than him).

My point was not that you have a small number of posts. It’s that you keep posting in this thread when there is no need and it doesn’t match past behavior. Thus the large percentage of your overall voice is spent protecting us from losing $75 on a business card. Seems like you just have an axe to grind and I would rather my eyeballs not bleed for it. 

[abc]

Jun 17, 2024 4:46:20 GMT 1 ck1 said:

Jun 17, 2024 0:40:30 GMT 1 abc said:

So my point is, the number of posts or the number of years a member had been in this forum is irrelevant. We should be more welcoming to members irrespective of the number of their posts.

Which ironically is exactly why Stormbreaker busted my balls with my posts (he dismissed me because I had less posts than him).

My point was not that you have a small number of posts. It’s that you keep posting in this thread when there is no need and it doesn’t match past behavior. Thus the large percentage of your overall voice is spent protecting us from losing $75 on a business card. Seems like you just have an axe to grind and I would rather my eyeballs not bleed for it. 

First, I apologize that this thread is making your "eyeballs bleed." Perhaps you might consider not clicking in, as there are probably other posts more to your liking.

Respectfully, I think you might be missing the point. The point is that I find it troubling that there are individuals who think that they need not prove the authenticity of the works they sell just because it's priced cheaply. I am also rather concerned that members are also turning a "blind eye" to this phenomenon; this can't be healthy for the ethos of the community and a whole.

Having said that, I should note that this $75 banksy post has garnered over 600 views in the space of 2 days, so perhaps I might have raised something of interest/importance to other members of this forum. Especially since members attract criminal liability for buying fakes unknowingly (thinking it is a good deal) and then flipping it on to 3rd parties.

Last, does anybody have anything constructive to say? I would be grateful if someone with some legal knowledge can share their thoughts on the matter?

[abc]

Also, Ck1, I do not "have an axe to grind". If you look at my history dated June 4 (which I'm sure you have), I actually invited Stormbreaker (the vendor of the $75 banksy card) to come out for a friendly discussion about Art. It was Stormbreaker who did not take me up on my offer. 

Having said that, when we talk about Art, I think we should stick to facts and arguments, rather than speculate on others' motivations (or the number of posts a member has). It would better keep things on track and promote more quality discussions.

[LJCal]

20+ posts about authenticity of £75 business card from a pop up shop that closed 13 years ago! Think we are scraping the barrel here guys

[loui]

Jul 2, 2024 22:12:44 GMT 1 LJCal said:

20+ posts about authenticity of £75 business card from a pop up shop that closed 13 years ago! Think we are scraping the barrel here guys

Really helpful post, thanks 

[abc]

I think that all goes to the mystique that Banksy has... As well as the self-imposed myopia (and possible scammers who are willing to take advantage of it)...

Why can't we simply enjoy Banky's works without attaching a dollar sign to it?

[abc]

And by-the-way for those who don't think that "reasonably priced" fake Banksys are an issue, here is a sample article in the Guardian about a scam ring who were selling fake Banksy works and Dismaland merchandise for as low as 80 euros (so about the same price as the item in question)...

www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2024/mar/07/spanish-police-smash-banksy-fakes-syndicate

"While the two people who made the copies of Banksy’s work MOSTLY sold them at “reasonable prices no higher than 80 euros”, the two individuals with “knowledge of the art world” found ways to fetch much higher prices by passing them off as real. Together, the group’s swindle is believed to have gained more than €10,000..."


Always pays to be viligant, folks...

[LJCal]

Jul 3, 2024 1:21:07 GMT 1 abc said:

And by-the-way for those who don't think that "reasonably priced" fake Banksys are an issue, here is a sample article in the Guardian about a scam ring who were selling fake Banksy works and Dismaland merchandise for as low as 80 euros (so about the same price as the item in question)...

www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2024/mar/07/spanish-police-smash-banksy-fakes-syndicate

"While the two people who made the copies of Banksy’s work MOSTLY sold them at “reasonable prices no higher than 80 euros”, the two individuals with “knowledge of the art world” found ways to fetch much higher prices by passing them off as real. Together, the group’s swindle is believed to have gained more than €10,000..."


Always pays to be viligant, folks...

It’s highly unlikely it’s a fake dude, it’s pretty clear from the abundance of pictures of these that this one has all the same characteristics, you can see the deckling on the paper and the consistency of colour and printing. If you have specific knowledge of this being a fake or can highlight a particular give away then I’m sure everyone would love hear it, otherwise your harming someone’s reputation without any reliable evidence. 

Obviously with any from of ephemera you will never get cast iron provenance especially freebies as there’s not even going to be a receipt so I question the logic of spending money on things like this but that’s a whole other debate. 

[abc]

Yo man, if you are aware of some Banksy catalogue raisonee for Banksy ephemera, then please share. (I'm aware of a catalogue raisonee for street pieces, but for ephemera like this, I have yet to identify a reputable one). In short, nobody so far has told me (or other newbie members like me) any way to verify the authenticity.

I would love to deepen my knowledge and trade more in low value Banksy pieces (if only there was some way to actually ascertain the authenticity). I humbly bow to any member who would take the time to educate me.

Indeed, I'm sure it would benefit the entire forum and the collector ecosystem as a whole.

[stevec]

dude, relax. move on.

[abc]

Jul 5, 2024 4:31:28 GMT 1 stevec said:

dude, relax. move on.

Hey man, I'm just as surprised as you are regarding the number of views as well as the staying power of this post. I'm only responding to members' comments (such as yours). It's really up to everybody to keep this thread alive.

Having said that，I'm still puzzled as to why nobody has actually tried to answer my questions head-on.

But I'm completely chill. I'm only looking to deepen my knowledge in art (as I'm sure you are as well).