MOCO • London Musuem

[LJCal]

Aug 22, 2024 20:51:47 GMT 1 loui said:

Aug 22, 2024 20:44:53 GMT 1 ck1 said:

Love these photos. love moco.
The MOCO in Barcelona is fantastic. They also do not sell their pieces or advertise for a gallery.
Not sure about across the pond but in the US we call these establishments museum

They do sell pieces mate and not advertising you sell them doesn’t make it Tate or the Louvre does it 🙄  . Anyway, the place is an artgallery. 

You really are a giant plonker. 

[loui]

Aug 22, 2024 22:17:11 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Aug 22, 2024 20:51:47 GMT 1 loui said:

They do sell pieces mate and not advertising you sell them doesn’t make it Tate or the Louvre does it 🙄  . Anyway, the place is an artgallery. 

You really are a giant plonker. 

If you really thought I give a shit about what you think then guess again who the plonker is.

[tidybut]

Brilliant!
Nice one Taxed 👌🏾

[Boy Wonder]

Impressive - wow. And I dont care if MOCO is a museum or a gallery.

Thanks for sharing.

[Bendy Man]

Is it as busy as the one in Amsterdam?  They let far too many people in at once, and it was packed when I visited.. I enjoyed the art, but not the crowds - is London any better?

[TAXED]

Well i went on thursday at 11 inthe morning, i was quite surprised how many people were there but 1 its summer hoilday and there was a few family with kids 2. its just opened so will be busy for the first few weeks, BUT you could still move around the show and find art that you could stand in front of and have just to yourself as there are 3 floors. but yeah wouldnt go at the weekend.

[Georgie Poppit]

I don’t personally feel this is a museum and don’t feel an artist should think their work has been acquired by a museum by being in Moco. I guess any gallery or commercial art enterprise can call their work a museum. London is full of great galleries, there’s zero chance I’m paying to go into this one.

[TAXED]

All the stuff in here is on loan from private collections,

[18921892]

Looks great and I want to go, are the pieces for sale or not?

[TAXED]

Well according to forum member loui yes there are, but im saying no, as there`s no signs saying pieces are for sale, and there's no mention on there web page about being able to purchase anything.

[LJCal]

Aug 23, 2024 20:40:11 GMT 1 TAXED said:

All the stuff in here is on loan from private collections,

They are buying as well 

[LJCal]

And FYI even the biggest museums sell works in their collection to raise funds for operations and new acquisitions, even state run and not for profit museums regularly sell when necessary. Most museums charge entry fees as well.

[loui]

Aug 23, 2024 22:05:03 GMT 1 TAXED said:

Well according to forum member loui yes there are, but im saying no, as there`s no signs saying pieces are for sale, and there's no mention on there web page about being able to purchase anything.

It’s not very difficult to find more info if you care to widen your search and broaden your mind a little into different languages eg the language of the owner of that gallery. This comes from an article in Dutch Financial Times 
“The authors are at their best when they let go of earlier journalistic productions. I had to laugh a lot at the chapter in which they visit the Moco, the commercial museum on Amsterdam's Museumplein, where owners Kim and Lionel Logchies become wealthy from little more than one Banksy screenprint and a commercial sculpture Jeff Koons once made for a champagne brand.
When Van Os and Ribbens were there last summer, there was also a Rothko hanging on the second floor. Works by this abstract master cost millions these days. Other visitors don't know this artist's work, by the way, and they clearly don't think much of it either. Then Van Os and Ribbens decide to ask the museum if they might be able to buy the Rothko. Their question is treated very seriously.”

[Pafori]

Awesome photos, thank you goinks! 😊 The OSGEMEOS's, Murikami's and Banksy's are amazing examples of their work.

[its all about me]

Aug 22, 2024 20:31:05 GMT 1 loui said:

Aug 22, 2024 20:27:04 GMT 1 its all about me said:

I don't know why you are obsessing about this.  In some countries the terms "museum" and "art gallery" are basically interchangeable.  "Art gallery" does not mean things are for sale.  

O? We’re not talking artgallery here that doesn’t sell works are we. So. Can you give us an example which countries you are talking about? Or be even more specific and tell us about what museums work as a gallery. Just so we know.

I don't know what you are getting at here.   If you are asking me to name an art gallery that does *not* sell artworks then there are absolutely loads!  Tate Gallery, National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Whitechapel Gallery, Dulwich Picture Gallery, Courtauld Gallery, Serpentine Gallery, etc. etc. etc.  And that's just in London.  

[Django]

Art Gallery/Museum
tomato/tomato - Lets Call the Whole Thing Off... whats more important to me beside the absolutely magnificent
artwork is "whats the gift shop like" ? if their is one at all, any decent goodies we can buy ?

[loui]

Aug 24, 2024 11:43:29 GMT 1 its all about me said:

Aug 22, 2024 20:31:05 GMT 1 loui said:

O? We’re not talking artgallery here that doesn’t sell works are we. So. Can you give us an example which countries you are talking about? Or be even more specific and tell us about what museums work as a gallery. Just so we know.

I don't know what you are getting at here.   If you are asking me to name an art gallery that does *not* sell artworks then there are absolutely loads!  Tate Gallery, National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Whitechapel Gallery, Dulwich Picture Gallery, Courtauld Gallery, Serpentine Gallery, etc. etc. etc.  And that's just in London.  

And now name gallery’s that call themselves museum 

[quinn]

Aug 24, 2024 13:50:53 GMT 1 loui said:

Aug 24, 2024 11:43:29 GMT 1 its all about me said:

I don't know what you are getting at here.   If you are asking me to name an art gallery that does *not* sell artworks then there are absolutely loads!  Tate Gallery, National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Whitechapel Gallery, Dulwich Picture Gallery, Courtauld Gallery, Serpentine Gallery, etc. etc. etc.  And that's just in London.  

And now name gallery’s that call themselves museum 

[loui]

Aug 24, 2024 14:33:37 GMT 1 quinn said:

Aug 24, 2024 13:50:53 GMT 1 loui said:

And now name gallery’s that call themselves museum 

No quinn this is a gallery AND a museum. It is not a gallery disguised as a museum. What i dont understand is why lionel loghies just didnt call moco a gallery. 

[loui]

He had a gallery before, i now see

www.parool.nl/kunst-media/kunstvervalsers-hebben-vrij-spel~b21135fb/


Art forgers have free rein
Art forgers risk getting free rein. Experts are becoming increasingly reluctant to question the authenticity of works for fear of claims.
Moreover, agencies that guard the heritage of great artists now often dare not issue certificates of authenticity, says Miety Heiden, the Amsterdam-raised vice president of Sotheby's in New York. 'This is o true for Andy Warhol, Jean-Michel Basquiat and Keith Haring. They are slamming the door for fear of lawsuits. With well-known artists, the claims can be huge.'

Anyone in the Netherlands who wants to check whether work by these American artists is authentic will have quite a job, says Heiden. 'The experts who can give a definite answer on this are not to be found in the Netherlands. Anyone who buys something like this is at the merchant's mercy.'

Engineered Warhols
It becomes very difficult to distinguish real from fake, says gallery owner Nico Delaive, who often sees questionable works turn up. 'With the latest techniques, everything can be recreated. There was a very big scandal around Warhol's Brillo boxes. Now you see signed Warhols on internet auctions with great regularity. Because it can't be controlled anyway.'

In the Netherlands, gallery The Art House on Amsterdam's Koninginneweg, which in recent months placed full-page newspaper ads, is stunting with huge discounts on works by Appel and Warhol, among others. Art experts, independently, called several Appels from his collection ‘highly questionable’.
According to Lionel Logchies, owner of The Art House, the Apples he sells are all genuine. 'They are from the collection of the Appel heirs. I have that documentation in my possession.'

The Dutch art trade is pricing itself out of the market through lack of any self-regulation, thinks art historian and gallery owner Willem Baars. 'In France and Germany they are much stricter. There, fake art is immediately taken off the market. Here, a forger has to be caught red-handed first.'

Read today in Het Parool: Picasso for 1,200 euros, well...

[Acme Thunderer]

According to Wikipedia, they couldn’t give a toss what it is called either and can be called whatever it wants.

[loui]

And he has a gallery now. So why a moco where he’s selling art also.


www.parool.nl/kunst-media/bijzondere-expositie-banksy-van-start-in-amsterdamse-lionel-gallery~b33aef36/

Special Banksy exhibition kicks off at Amsterdam's Lionel Gallery
Starting today, Amsterdam's Lionel Gallery is hosting an exhibition of Banksy, the illustrious British street art artist. Special: there is work for sale.
The screenprint Morons, about an auction, is typical of the position Banksy has taken in the art world. ‘I can't believe you morons actually buy this shit’ can be read on the painting sold at that auction. Judging by his pointing arm, the auctioneer has just had a bid on it.

The British street art artist has always set himself up as a kind of Robin Hood giving art back to the people, but now belongs to the establishment he has so often criticised. Once starting out as a graffiti sprayer in Bristol, Banksy became the anonymous rebel of the art world.

His early inspirations include the graffiti artist 3D, also from Bristol, who later founded Massive Attack, and Parisian street art artist Blek le Rat. By his own admission, Banksy switched from spray cans to stencil work because it allowed him to work faster and thus stay out of the hands of the police more easily.

Identity
Morons also shows Banksy's humour. It is this humour and playfulness that make his work so special. Banksy criticises capitalism a lot in his work and often plays with existing (authority) relationships, but nowhere does it become whiny. Think of his works featuring ME officers with smileys as heads, such as Have a nice day, children throwing a sign at each other saying ‘No ball games please’, and rioting bankers.

Banksy looks at the city like a skateboarder does - looking for a nice wall, pavement or other place he can use for his tricks. The thieving rat cutting a real lock with concrete scissors is a good example.

Although he scrupulously keeps his identity a secret - on the cards accompanying the pieces in Lionel Gallery, his year of birth even ranges between 1973 and 1974 - Banksy is not averse to a good stunt. For instance, he hung his own works in well-known museums such as the Metropolitan Museum in New York and the British Museum in London. In the latter, his painting of neanderthals chasing shopping trolleys stayed up for months before anyone noticed. It is now part of the permanent collection.

Limited prints
Two years ago, Banksy spent a month in New York. There, not only did his work appear on the walls. He also ran a truck full of squeaky toy animals through the city and sold his own work (worth tens of thousands of dollars) in Central Park for sixty dollars.

Meanwhile, Banksy is bigger than big. His film Exit Through The Gift Shop received an Oscar nomination and his works are so sought-after that people are sawing out entire walls. While before, municipal officials gleefully removed or painted over Banksy's pieces, now his work needs to be preserved and protected as soon as possible.

The exhibition at Lionel Gallery can therefore rightly be called special. That there are works by Banksy for sale is already special. ‘There are a lot of customers and not enough trade,’ says Kim Logchies of Lionel Gallery. Fifteen original works and all his limited prints are on display. Prices range from three thousand to a million euros. Logchies and her husband Lionel spent three years arranging this exhibition. ‘Banksy himself has not organised an exhibition for years and Sotheby's was the only outsider so far last year.’

In his book Wall and Piece, Banksy revealed that he himself was not a fan of galleries: ‘If you go to an art gallery you are just a tourist looking at the trophy cabinet of a bunch of millionaires.’

and when exactly did hirst take over banksy again?

[its all about me]

Aug 24, 2024 13:50:53 GMT 1 loui said:

Aug 24, 2024 11:43:29 GMT 1 its all about me said:

I don't know what you are getting at here.   If you are asking me to name an art gallery that does *not* sell artworks then there are absolutely loads!  Tate Gallery, National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Whitechapel Gallery, Dulwich Picture Gallery, Courtauld Gallery, Serpentine Gallery, etc. etc. etc.  And that's just in London.  

And now name gallery’s that call themselves museum 

Metropolitan museum, New York.  The Museum of Modern Art (MoMA), New York. The Musee D'Orsay, Paris. The Van Gogh museum, Amsterdam.  The Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam. etc. etc. etc.  There are literally hundreds of art galleries across the globe that are called museums.  
I still don't understand why you are questioning this and why it seems to matter to you whether the place is called a gallery or a museum.     

[drip]

It can be named Barry for all I care,

[loui]

Aug 24, 2024 16:18:49 GMT 1 drip said:

It can be named Barry for all I care,

😂 

[John The Badgers]

Really appreciate you posting the pictures Taxed.

Some lovely items on display, will definitely put that on my list to visit.

[loui]

Aug 24, 2024 18:20:02 GMT 1 John The Badgers said:

Really appreciate you posting the pictures Taxed.

Some lovely items on display, will definitely put that on my list to visit.

let us pray to god that you ain’t the man with the badger on his shirt at a certain festival. Cause if you are, you’ve changed a lot since your previous statement. Not that i think there is a god but that aside.

[TAXED]

Aug 24, 2024 12:13:48 GMT 1 Django said:

Art Gallery/Museum
tomato/tomato - Lets Call the Whole Thing Off... whats more important to me beside the absolutely magnificent
artwork is "whats the gift shop like" ? if their is one at all, any decent goodies we can buy ?

They have a small gift shop, with a handful books and postcards/posters, enamel pins mainly Warhol, Basquiat, Haring, same stuff you can buy anywhere online, so nothing to get excited about 

[timmyup]

Wonder how much rent they are paying.

[loui]

Sept 10, 2024 17:15:33 GMT 1 timmyup said:

Wonder how much rent they are paying.

They needed to sell some Hirsts for it I guess. Did I say Hirsts 🤔 I meant Banksys