[chomsky]

Looks like FinDac find a way to stop flipping and get a % of resales.

"A friend and collector has been devising and building a new COA system and because I’ve been involved from virtually the start, my show will be the first in the world to showcase the new system.
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All artworks at Afterglow/Undertow have a digital COA record applied already. We’ll be encouraging buyers to verify any purchase by logging into the new system and entering their details.
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This authenticates you as the buyer and future proofs and protects your investment.
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And u can also get a free ‘Sonica’ print depending on what COA option you choose.
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Real fans of my work will be pleased to hear that this new system includes certain time restrictions on resales and, like NFTs, pays a percentage of resales to the artist."

http://instagr.am/p/CVM6QiEIxu9

[daylightrobber]

The person behind this is a member on here. I've been privileged to have been able to follow progress from early doors. and I believe we are about to see something which will revolutionise authentication and ownership etc. The snippets FinDac has touched on are just a start., a scratch on the surface of what the system will eventually be able to do. There's a huge amount of thought gone into the project along with knowhow and expertise. To top it off the individual behind it is a total gent. I wish him and all those who are showing belief in him (FinDac will be the 1st of many) every success with the venture. He really deserves it.

[sunny garcia]

I'd say sure - digital COA's are fine, and I'm good with artists getting a % of secondary sales, but non-resale terms on larger editions is just plain dumb. Paintings makes sense, but people buying and reselling an artist's (like FinDac) work (editions) only helps them in the long run (IMO).

🤷‍♂️

[fonzzzie]

Oct 19, 2021 15:34:24 GMT 1 sunny garcia said:

non-resale terms on larger editions is just plain dumb. Paintings makes sense, but people buying and reselling an artist's (like FinDac) work (editions) only helps them in the long run (IMO)

As i understand the resale terms are for a limited period, and i do agree with you that flippers help artists although they might see it differently. Nowadays editions are sold out so fast, or they are released by lottery, so also actual collectors miss out. Flippers can serve them, and they also pump the value of the prints.

I wonder what blockchain this COA will be on, will there be "gas fees" (transaction fees) when transferring the COA to a new buyer? And what are the ARR terms? What is the ARR percentage, is there a threshold and a cap? 

🤷‍♂️

[sunny garcia]

This discussion can go on forever and in multiple directions. I'll say that many/most artists see it differently, and want people to collect for the pure joy of owning a piece of their art. They dismiss the fact that their art is an asset, and mainly supported by the wealthy.

On the flip side they (artists) want to make money (as much as they possibly can), like the rest of us, so want to charge as much as possible for their art. Without a healthy secondary market, many/most would be out of a job.

Galleries/art dealers are the winners all day.

[Naor]

blockchain based COA’s are the future or ownership.. sometimes I wonder myself if the COA won’t become more valuable then the art piece itself (I have a COA but the artwork has flaws, I’ll buy a 1:1 knockoff with my COA = I have 100% of my works value available). In any case I believe that works (incl. canvases & works on paper) in the future will be incorporated with NFC tags to verify the piece itself, because the COA today validates ownership, not the genuineness of the piece.

To the point of resell rights, I think that resell rights are not “fair” to some extent (couldn’t find a better term) - if you buy a VW from a dealership tomorrow and sell it in 2 years, would VW deserve some commission? By selling art the artist is willingly parting ways with the piece or the edition. if I bought an investment piece today at 100 quid, and sold it for 100,000 after 10 years, it’s not because the artist became amazing suddenly (he was always amazing), its because I made an amazing investment (again as an example, if you bought Microsoft stock for £2 in the year 2000 and now sell for £2000, your an amazing investor, Microsoft is not entitled to get 15% of your profit).

p.s.
The above does not mean that by buying an artwork I can replicate it or assume entitlement for specific features of it, similarly to how owning a VW does not entitle me to replicate the car and start selling my knockoffs as VW’s

[sunny garcia]

The problem is that many other artists (musicians, actors) get paid royalties every single time their song or movie is played or viewed etc... Artists are not "an investment", according to artists lol

Swizz Beatz is a huge supporter of this: news.artnet.com/market/swizz-beatz-sothebys-artist-royalties-1355674

[zoart]

While the spirit of this makes sense, the application of it seems niche.
Who needs a COA on a $300 art print? What the hell are you going to do with it, take it to Christies?

Also, the secondary revenue streams are interesting, however, it brings up the question of ownership.

I bought a house, the builder doesnt get a percentage every time the house sells.

Musicians produce art that is sold at rather low price points. If we bought songs at $300, it seems unlikely that royalties would be a thing.

For originals, particularly ones worth $xx,xxx, this makes a lot of sense to have a block chain COA that is validating it is, what is it. However, as stated above, when the physical item and the digital token are not attached, how does one validate the physical item is what it says it is.

[eleddy]

Oct 20, 2021 20:40:57 GMT 1 Naor said:

blockchain based COA’s are the future or ownership.. sometimes I wonder myself if the COA won’t become more valuable then the art piece itself (I have a COA but the artwork has flaws, I’ll buy a 1:1 knockoff with my COA = I have 100% of my works value available). In any case I believe that works (incl. canvases & works on paper) in the future will be incorporated with NFC tags to verify the piece itself, because the COA today validates ownership, not the genuineness of the piece.

To the point of resell rights, I think that resell rights are not “fair” to some extent (couldn’t find a better term) - if you buy a VW from a dealership tomorrow and sell it in 2 years, would VW deserve some commission? By selling art the artist is willingly parting ways with the piece or the edition. if I bought an investment piece today at 100 quid, and sold it for 100,000 after 10 years, it’s not because the artist became amazing suddenly (he was always amazing), its because I made an amazing investment (again as an example, if you bought Microsoft stock for £2 in the year 2000 and now sell for £2000, your an amazing investor, Microsoft is not entitled to get 15% of your profit).

p.s.
The above does not mean that by buying an artwork I can replicate it or assume entitlement for specific features of it, similarly to how owning a VW does not entitle me to replicate the car and start selling my knockofFor Sale as VW’s

Paper based COAs are a horrible joke. I can't wait for a replacement and I'm on the Blockchain train as well. At least it gives the option to have a different business model if the artist wants it. I love that Tyler Hobbs gave owners of Fidenza NFTs the option to buy a print. This is just one of many possible futures of the business of art. I'm all for experimentation. May the best business model(s) win. Glad to see this happening, thanks for the heads up.

[artfan2011]

It's just a gimmick - Private sellers will trade these works as they please

[daylightrobber]

Oct 24, 2021 10:46:12 GMT 1 artfan2011 said:

It's just a gimmick - Private sellers will trade these works as they please

I'm sure they will, but the system has bucket loads of potential to help artists, collectors and galleries. FinDac won't be the only artist going down this route. Guaranteed.

[Titerito]

Hi,
Sorry if it is not the right thread... I registered my piece weeks ago and never received anything (COA and the mini) and the only contact address I can find for AlwaysArt bounces back. Anybody else? 

Thanks 

[random ginger bloke]

Dec 1, 2021 15:52:44 GMT 1 Titerito said:

Hi,
Sorry if it is not the right thread... I registered my piece weeks ago and never received anything (COA and the mini) and the only contact address I can find for AlwaysArt bounces back. Anybody else? 

Thanks 

Just received mine today in the flimsiest envelope imaginable, got a Christmas card from my aunt today and that was better packaged haha

[random ginger bloke]

Replacement Coa came in similar packaging with similar damage. Was given instant refund so can't fault them on that but definitely not worth the premium. On hindsight it's a bit of a farce/rip-off having to pay for a physical COA when buying from source. Feels like having to buy a charger when buying a new phone haha #stevejobs