orenic
New Member
Posts โข 32
Likes โข 33
December 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by orenic on Dec 20, 2020 14:30:26 GMT 1, I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house.
They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc.
Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways.
What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ?
Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ?
I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved.
I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house.
They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc.
Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways.
What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ?
Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ?
I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved.
|
|
blurp
New Member
Posts โข 627
Likes โข 613
February 2019
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by blurp on Dec 20, 2020 14:45:25 GMT 1, This thread will be deleted in 5....4....3...2....
This thread will be deleted in 5....4....3...2....
|
|
Dive Jedi
Junior Member
Posts โข 6,160
Likes โข 9,389
October 2015
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Dive Jedi on Dec 20, 2020 14:50:32 GMT 1, I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house. They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc. Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways. What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ? Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ? I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved. Not sure I am one of the "quite vocal members". I never bought or sold anything at TW, not do I know the guys running it. So I have no interest in this. There's plenty involvement in the discussion.
I do think it's rather odd that someone who values transparancy created this user account with the sole purpose to complain about TW.... Your account was created in December 2020 and all 10 posts are in the TW thread. Obviously you have been around the forum longer, so it would be my guess you have another account here.
Not sure what another thread would add to the discussion. 2 seprate threads on the same subject would only add confusion.
As far as I can judge Daniel is looking into this and doing his best to make ammends. Your post above is borderline to wearing a tin foil hat level. And creating a new account doesn't add to your credibility.
I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house. They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc. Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways. What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ? Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ? I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved. Not sure I am one of the "quite vocal members". I never bought or sold anything at TW, not do I know the guys running it. So I have no interest in this. There's plenty involvement in the discussion. I do think it's rather odd that someone who values transparancy created this user account with the sole purpose to complain about TW.... Your account was created in December 2020 and all 10 posts are in the TW thread. Obviously you have been around the forum longer, so it would be my guess you have another account here. Not sure what another thread would add to the discussion. 2 seprate threads on the same subject would only add confusion. As far as I can judge Daniel is looking into this and doing his best to make ammends. Your post above is borderline to wearing a tin foil hat level. And creating a new account doesn't add to your credibility.
|
|
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Lroy on Dec 20, 2020 14:58:17 GMT 1, I donโt understand really : it should be a police affair now ... Or a SY investigation as for Banksy fakes prints on eBay years ago
I donโt understand really : it should be a police affair now ... Or a SY investigation as for Banksy fakes prints on eBay years ago
|
|
JFCC
New Member
Posts โข 389
Likes โข 392
Member is Online
May 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by JFCC on Dec 20, 2020 15:09:06 GMT 1, I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house. They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc. Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways. What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ? Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ? I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved. Not sure I am one of the "quite vocal members". I never bought or sold anything at TW, not do I know the guys running it. So I have no interest in this. There's plenty involvement in the discussion. I do think it's rather odd that someone who values transparancy created this user account with the sole purpose to complain about TW.... Your account was created in December 2020 and all 10 posts are in the TW thread. Obviously you have been around the forum longer, so it would be my guess you have another account here. Not sure what another thread would add to the discussion. 2 seprate threads on the same subject would only add confusion. As far as I can judge Daniel is looking into this and doing his best to make ammends. Your post above is borderline to wearing a tin foil hat level. And creating a new account doesn't add to your credibility. A points to observe on those comments:
1. I and most people, will totally agree that fake or multiple accounts ruins the credibility of any Forum debate and should not be allowed but that is for people who make the rules to enforce/monitor. It is certainly deceitful.
2. I am not convinced that Tate Ward are addressing the fake problem? There has been very little comment from them and it would be good to hear how many refunds they have made. Further they have made no comment on the allegations about Warhol prints nor the practices of their employee who it is claimed has been selling fakes himself.
3. As a minimum it would have been fair to see a public statement about changes in their working practices to ensure this is not repeated, without it brings in to question a whole part of their business model as they cannot be trusted from a buyers perspective. I would not buy from them until this has been made clear.
4. Again clarification should be made publicly about their intention towards, we can only assume, the multiple consignors who have been putting the fake items in to their auctions. Are they going to ban them and report them to the Police?
5. Let's not forget multiple criminal offences have been committed. Selling fake posters is against the law and TW have done so repeatedly apparently at their own admission, which suggests that they either are not competent in identifying them or have done so knowingly and turned a blind eye. At the end of the day individuals have been defrauded, even those who got their "costs" back, so it is definitely worthy for a debate in its own right as it has gone beyond fake Petrol Bomb posters.
I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house. They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc. Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways. What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ? Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ? I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved. Not sure I am one of the "quite vocal members". I never bought or sold anything at TW, not do I know the guys running it. So I have no interest in this. There's plenty involvement in the discussion. I do think it's rather odd that someone who values transparancy created this user account with the sole purpose to complain about TW.... Your account was created in December 2020 and all 10 posts are in the TW thread. Obviously you have been around the forum longer, so it would be my guess you have another account here. Not sure what another thread would add to the discussion. 2 seprate threads on the same subject would only add confusion. As far as I can judge Daniel is looking into this and doing his best to make ammends. Your post above is borderline to wearing a tin foil hat level. And creating a new account doesn't add to your credibility. A points to observe on those comments: 1. I and most people, will totally agree that fake or multiple accounts ruins the credibility of any Forum debate and should not be allowed but that is for people who make the rules to enforce/monitor. It is certainly deceitful. 2. I am not convinced that Tate Ward are addressing the fake problem? There has been very little comment from them and it would be good to hear how many refunds they have made. Further they have made no comment on the allegations about Warhol prints nor the practices of their employee who it is claimed has been selling fakes himself. 3. As a minimum it would have been fair to see a public statement about changes in their working practices to ensure this is not repeated, without it brings in to question a whole part of their business model as they cannot be trusted from a buyers perspective. I would not buy from them until this has been made clear. 4. Again clarification should be made publicly about their intention towards, we can only assume, the multiple consignors who have been putting the fake items in to their auctions. Are they going to ban them and report them to the Police? 5. Let's not forget multiple criminal offences have been committed. Selling fake posters is against the law and TW have done so repeatedly apparently at their own admission, which suggests that they either are not competent in identifying them or have done so knowingly and turned a blind eye. At the end of the day individuals have been defrauded, even those who got their "costs" back, so it is definitely worthy for a debate in its own right as it has gone beyond fake Petrol Bomb posters.
|
|
dotdot
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,645
Likes โข 1,025
December 2006
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by dotdot on Dec 20, 2020 15:20:50 GMT 1, for the record i have one account here.
I am not a mod ( and , yeah , not on my list .. either)
I know of Dan - he has a relatively good reputation... in a few places - not just here - this is not the centre of any universe.
I have not sold through TW.
If there is an ongoing investigation I very much doubt the detail therein would show up here. (bau)
shame if true & this has occurred - provenance for artwork and auction reputations are attributes which are key to a working situation...
a non working situation (fubar) is something a good many of us .. are too aware of right now - i for one... hope this gets cleared up and cleared up properly.
..now - stay cool and keep yir heid. (gsoh - notwithstanding)
..
for the record i have one account here.
I am not a mod ( and , yeah , not on my list .. either)
I know of Dan - he has a relatively good reputation... in a few places - not just here - this is not the centre of any universe.
I have not sold through TW.
If there is an ongoing investigation I very much doubt the detail therein would show up here. (bau)
shame if true & this has occurred - provenance for artwork and auction reputations are attributes which are key to a working situation...
a non working situation (fubar) is something a good many of us .. are too aware of right now - i for one... hope this gets cleared up and cleared up properly.
..now - stay cool and keep yir heid. (gsoh - notwithstanding)
..
|
|
|
overend
New Member
Posts โข 587
Likes โข 386
October 2013
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by overend on Dec 20, 2020 15:55:18 GMT 1, Iโm still waiting for Nick to contact me.. He has my name and number .. nothing yet
Thanks for the update. That is disappointing given the assurances previously given. Hope you get sorted.
Iโm still waiting for Nick to contact me.. He has my name and number .. nothing yet Thanks for the update. That is disappointing given the assurances previously given. Hope you get sorted.
|
|
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Happy Shopper on Dec 20, 2020 16:07:23 GMT 1, Is there need for a new thread about this? Isnโt it all already discussed, at length, on the other thread!?
I doubt thereโs any new evidence and Tateward have said theyโre taking action.
They seem to sell a lot of art every month, so I doubt this has been done on purpose to rip people off. It seems more likely to me that theyโve been duped too.
Is there need for a new thread about this? Isnโt it all already discussed, at length, on the other thread!?
I doubt thereโs any new evidence and Tateward have said theyโre taking action.
They seem to sell a lot of art every month, so I doubt this has been done on purpose to rip people off. It seems more likely to me that theyโve been duped too.
|
|
orenic
New Member
Posts โข 32
Likes โข 33
December 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by orenic on Dec 20, 2020 16:18:16 GMT 1, I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning
Do we accept that anything else sold at Tate Ward that is fake is just bad luck and to be accepted.
Weโve heard nothing from them about these new claims on the Warholโs, they refuse to respond.
Has anyone bought Warholโs from Tate Ward in the past on here ?
I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning Do we accept that anything else sold at Tate Ward that is fake is just bad luck and to be accepted. Weโve heard nothing from them about these new claims on the Warholโs, they refuse to respond. Has anyone bought Warholโs from Tate Ward in the past on here ?
|
|
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Happy Shopper on Dec 20, 2020 16:25:18 GMT 1, I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning As you say, it a was mentioned on the other thread, but if there's no more evidence, and it's something they need to investigate themselves, then I don't think we'll achieve much here.
Good that it has been highlighted as a possible issue on this forum though. If there's new evidence and Tateward are able to comment, then that's great.
I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning As you say, it a was mentioned on the other thread, but if there's no more evidence, and it's something they need to investigate themselves, then I don't think we'll achieve much here. Good that it has been highlighted as a possible issue on this forum though. If there's new evidence and Tateward are able to comment, then that's great.
|
|
Adcua
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,451
Likes โข 858
June 2019
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Adcua on Dec 20, 2020 16:34:54 GMT 1, I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning Do we accept that anything else sold at Tate Ward that is fake is just bad luck and to be accepted. Weโve heard nothing from them about these new claims on the Warholโs, they refuse to respond. Has anyone bought Warholโs from Tate Ward in the past on here ?
If you have a problem with a purchase you have made with them they will be more than willing to help you out, Iโve got nothing but good things to say about Tate Ward.
From what I have seen, they have taken accountability for the fake Banksy posters and are dealing with the issue directly with anyone that has been affected.
Why do you feel like you need to receive an update in regards to the โfake Warholโsโ on a public forum when you and many others are hiding behind second accounts to come on here to keep the conversation going about Tate Ward. If you have a problem, reach out directly and Iโm sure your get a response.
I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning Do we accept that anything else sold at Tate Ward that is fake is just bad luck and to be accepted. Weโve heard nothing from them about these new claims on the Warholโs, they refuse to respond. Has anyone bought Warholโs from Tate Ward in the past on here ? If you have a problem with a purchase you have made with them they will be more than willing to help you out, Iโve got nothing but good things to say about Tate Ward. From what I have seen, they have taken accountability for the fake Banksy posters and are dealing with the issue directly with anyone that has been affected. Why do you feel like you need to receive an update in regards to the โfake Warholโsโ on a public forum when you and many others are hiding behind second accounts to come on here to keep the conversation going about Tate Ward. If you have a problem, reach out directly and Iโm sure your get a response.
|
|
WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,457
Likes โข 4,753
March 2014
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by WOOF on Dec 20, 2020 16:45:29 GMT 1, I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning Do we accept that anything else sold at Tate Ward that is fake is just bad luck and to be accepted. Weโve heard nothing from them about these new claims on the Warholโs, they refuse to respond. Has anyone bought Warholโs from Tate Ward in the past on here ? If you have a problem with a purchase you have made with them they will be more than willing to help you out, Iโve got nothing but good things to say about Tate Ward. From what I have seen, they have taken accountability for the fake Banksy posters and are dealing with the issue directly with anyone that has been affected. Why do you feel like you need to receive an update in regards to the โfake Warholโsโ on a public forum when you and many others are hiding behind second accounts to come on here to keep the conversation going about Tate Ward. If you have a problem, reach out directly and Iโm sure your get a response.
Seems just as weird for an uninvolved party to come out and defend an auction house they donโt represent.
I know the fake Banksy posters have been discussed on the other thread but what about the Warholโs people keep on mentioning Do we accept that anything else sold at Tate Ward that is fake is just bad luck and to be accepted. Weโve heard nothing from them about these new claims on the Warholโs, they refuse to respond. Has anyone bought Warholโs from Tate Ward in the past on here ? If you have a problem with a purchase you have made with them they will be more than willing to help you out, Iโve got nothing but good things to say about Tate Ward. From what I have seen, they have taken accountability for the fake Banksy posters and are dealing with the issue directly with anyone that has been affected. Why do you feel like you need to receive an update in regards to the โfake Warholโsโ on a public forum when you and many others are hiding behind second accounts to come on here to keep the conversation going about Tate Ward. If you have a problem, reach out directly and Iโm sure your get a response. Seems just as weird for an uninvolved party to come out and defend an auction house they donโt represent.
|
|
Rubberneck
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,042
Likes โข 1,420
October 2018
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Rubberneck on Dec 20, 2020 16:47:42 GMT 1, Itโs important to discuss these things publicly, itโs give fair warning to buyers who do their own full research to tread carefully. Letโs not forget the amounts being discussed here , itโs thousands of ยฃ.
Itโs important to discuss these things publicly, itโs give fair warning to buyers who do their own full research to tread carefully. Letโs not forget the amounts being discussed here , itโs thousands of ยฃ.
|
|
Adcua
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,451
Likes โข 858
June 2019
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Adcua on Dec 20, 2020 18:32:02 GMT 1, Itโs important to discuss these things publicly, itโs give fair warning to buyers who do their own full research to tread carefully. Letโs not forget the amounts being discussed here , itโs thousands of ยฃ.
Donโt get me wrong, I completely agree that people need to be made aware of any problems which has been done in another thread. What I find strange is the amount of members who have made additional accounts to do so, it just comes across malicious to me. Weโve seen at least a couple of people who are actually in the situation come out and share their experience and acknowledge that Tate Ward are trying to put things right.
Who knows, their may have been sinister motives to begin with from Tate Wards side but only they know that. Iโm just speaking in regards to my experience with Tate Ward selling with them, they are a decent auction house and very professional. It wouldnโt be right for me to sit here and not share my personal experience while there professionalism is being question by people not even involved.
Itโs important to discuss these things publicly, itโs give fair warning to buyers who do their own full research to tread carefully. Letโs not forget the amounts being discussed here , itโs thousands of ยฃ. Donโt get me wrong, I completely agree that people need to be made aware of any problems which has been done in another thread. What I find strange is the amount of members who have made additional accounts to do so, it just comes across malicious to me. Weโve seen at least a couple of people who are actually in the situation come out and share their experience and acknowledge that Tate Ward are trying to put things right. Who knows, their may have been sinister motives to begin with from Tate Wards side but only they know that. Iโm just speaking in regards to my experience with Tate Ward selling with them, they are a decent auction house and very professional. It wouldnโt be right for me to sit here and not share my personal experience while there professionalism is being question by people not even involved.
|
|
|
JFCC
New Member
Posts โข 389
Likes โข 392
Member is Online
May 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by JFCC on Dec 20, 2020 18:38:27 GMT 1, The important point here is that some people are fortunate enough to be able to spot a fake, most people are not and rely on experts at auction houses to sift them out. Those selling fakes are taking advantage of that failing made worse by allowing individuals to sell fakes themselves personally. So those who do not stand up to that kind of behaviour are as bad as the fakers in my opinion.
I personally do not like fraudsters or people who take advantage of others due to their position. I would like to believe that if Tate Ward were as honourable as some would say (although I am dubious of the posters motives, affiliations or the number of accounts they have) they would want to be completely open, transparent and honest. After all it's their name, their reputation. If it was my business I would be doing everything possible to save both.
A lot of people have paid, in some cases, ยฃ'000's for these frauds and are sitting completely unaware what they have been sold. Those who have bought these fakes probably cannot afford them and are sitting hoping that they not only have something to cherish but some small amount in an appreciating investment for a rainy.
So yes I think this forum does need to take the issue on with Tate Ward, yes everyone can turn a blind eye or keep their snout in the trough, but personally that does not sit well with me.
and for the record I have one account and have no affiliations or links with anyone other than my own conscience.
The important point here is that some people are fortunate enough to be able to spot a fake, most people are not and rely on experts at auction houses to sift them out. Those selling fakes are taking advantage of that failing made worse by allowing individuals to sell fakes themselves personally. So those who do not stand up to that kind of behaviour are as bad as the fakers in my opinion.
I personally do not like fraudsters or people who take advantage of others due to their position. I would like to believe that if Tate Ward were as honourable as some would say (although I am dubious of the posters motives, affiliations or the number of accounts they have) they would want to be completely open, transparent and honest. After all it's their name, their reputation. If it was my business I would be doing everything possible to save both.
A lot of people have paid, in some cases, ยฃ'000's for these frauds and are sitting completely unaware what they have been sold. Those who have bought these fakes probably cannot afford them and are sitting hoping that they not only have something to cherish but some small amount in an appreciating investment for a rainy.
So yes I think this forum does need to take the issue on with Tate Ward, yes everyone can turn a blind eye or keep their snout in the trough, but personally that does not sit well with me.
and for the record I have one account and have no affiliations or links with anyone other than my own conscience.
|
|
Spenie
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,255
Likes โข 2,164
November 2014
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Spenie on Dec 20, 2020 19:26:20 GMT 1, I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house. They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc. Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways. What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ? Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ? I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved. Not sure I am one of the "quite vocal members". I never bought or sold anything at TW, not do I know the guys running it. So I have no interest in this. There's plenty involvement in the discussion. I do think it's rather odd that someone who values transparancy created this user account with the sole purpose to complain about TW.... Your account was created in December 2020 and all 10 posts are in the TW thread. Obviously you have been around the forum longer, so it would be my guess you have another account here. Not sure what another thread would add to the discussion. 2 seprate threads on the same subject would only add confusion. As far as I can judge Daniel is looking into this and doing his best to make ammends. Your post above is borderline to wearing a tin foil hat level. And creating a new account doesn't add to your credibility. Didn't you sell a Peckham Rock with TW in October?
I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the situation with Tate Ward auction house. They have obviously been caught selling fake Banksy Posters but there has been mention of fake Warholโs etc. Itโs also quite interesting that a lot of quite vocal members on here have gone very quiet post Tate Ward being found guilty of selling fakes, are they involved ? Is it some kind of old boys club making cash through illicit ways. What happened to the consigners of the fake Banksy Posters ? Were they all from the same person etc ? Have the Police been involved ? Should they be called ? I hope this thread isnโt shut down due to Tate Ward paying advertising feeโs to the UAA. I think itโs the duty of all of us to prevent this from happening again and get to bottom of what went down and who was involved. Not sure I am one of the "quite vocal members". I never bought or sold anything at TW, not do I know the guys running it. So I have no interest in this. There's plenty involvement in the discussion. I do think it's rather odd that someone who values transparancy created this user account with the sole purpose to complain about TW.... Your account was created in December 2020 and all 10 posts are in the TW thread. Obviously you have been around the forum longer, so it would be my guess you have another account here. Not sure what another thread would add to the discussion. 2 seprate threads on the same subject would only add confusion. As far as I can judge Daniel is looking into this and doing his best to make ammends. Your post above is borderline to wearing a tin foil hat level. And creating a new account doesn't add to your credibility. Didn't you sell a Peckham Rock with TW in October?
|
|
Dive Jedi
Junior Member
Posts โข 6,160
Likes โข 9,389
October 2015
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Dive Jedi on Dec 20, 2020 19:31:40 GMT 1, Spenie no
|
|
tab1
Full Member
Posts โข 8,519
Likes โข 3,678
September 2011
|
|
|
Dexter Bulldog
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,975
Likes โข 1,876
July 2013
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Dexter Bulldog on Dec 20, 2020 19:47:15 GMT 1, It would seem the loudest few accounts constantly criticizing tw may sell art via some other outlet and are trying to help themselves by hurting tw. Just looking on when accounts were created and how much they post. Thatโs not to say tw donโt need to get their sh1t together with these petrol posters, they absolutely do, but it seems like the op is deliberately trying to harm them by creating a new thread title on something thatโs been addressed in another thread for hundreds of posts. Looking in from the outside, as one who would never care about a petrol bomb poster, let alone pay thousands for it, it would seem obvious thereโs an ulterior motive to all of this. From reading these threads it doesnโt even seem like op (and about a half dozen other pitchfork wielding accounts) even purchased one of these posters.
It would seem the loudest few accounts constantly criticizing tw may sell art via some other outlet and are trying to help themselves by hurting tw. Just looking on when accounts were created and how much they post. Thatโs not to say tw donโt need to get their sh1t together with these petrol posters, they absolutely do, but it seems like the op is deliberately trying to harm them by creating a new thread title on something thatโs been addressed in another thread for hundreds of posts. Looking in from the outside, as one who would never care about a petrol bomb poster, let alone pay thousands for it, it would seem obvious thereโs an ulterior motive to all of this. From reading these threads it doesnโt even seem like op (and about a half dozen other pitchfork wielding accounts) even purchased one of these posters.
|
|
Rubberneck
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,042
Likes โข 1,420
October 2018
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Rubberneck on Dec 20, 2020 19:48:50 GMT 1, Itโs important to discuss these things publicly, itโs give fair warning to buyers who do their own full research to tread carefully. Letโs not forget the amounts being discussed here , itโs thousands of ยฃ. Donโt get me wrong, I completely agree that people need to be made aware of any problems which has been done in another thread. What I find strange is the amount of members who have made additional accounts to do so, it just comes across malicious to me. Weโve seen at least a couple of people who are actually in the situation come out and share their experience and acknowledge that Tate Ward are trying to put things right. Who knows, their may have been sinister motives to begin with from Tate Wards side but only they know that. Iโm just speaking in regards to my experience with Tate Ward selling with them, they are a decent auction house and very professional. It wouldnโt be right for me to sit here and not share my personal experience while there professionalism is being question by people not even involved. Yes thatโs up to you, but at their own admission they have been โunwittinglyโ selling fakes for over 3 years through the auction house and more damningly privately to under bidders and in direct sales. Thatโs a long term scam in anyones eyes.
Itโs important to discuss these things publicly, itโs give fair warning to buyers who do their own full research to tread carefully. Letโs not forget the amounts being discussed here , itโs thousands of ยฃ. Donโt get me wrong, I completely agree that people need to be made aware of any problems which has been done in another thread. What I find strange is the amount of members who have made additional accounts to do so, it just comes across malicious to me. Weโve seen at least a couple of people who are actually in the situation come out and share their experience and acknowledge that Tate Ward are trying to put things right. Who knows, their may have been sinister motives to begin with from Tate Wards side but only they know that. Iโm just speaking in regards to my experience with Tate Ward selling with them, they are a decent auction house and very professional. It wouldnโt be right for me to sit here and not share my personal experience while there professionalism is being question by people not even involved. Yes thatโs up to you, but at their own admission they have been โunwittinglyโ selling fakes for over 3 years through the auction house and more damningly privately to under bidders and in direct sales. Thatโs a long term scam in anyones eyes.
|
|
gimmeabreak
New Member
Posts โข 380
Likes โข 406
October 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by gimmeabreak on Dec 20, 2020 19:53:12 GMT 1, I don't knock OP for creating an anonymous account to discuss something like this. A bit like an anonymous whistleblower, albeit less internal.
I have no allegiance to any auction house. I will say this: any auction house that includes a fake work in its auction, and is saved by the eyes of an internet forum member/art fan who managed to spot a fake better than the auction house's own authentication services, should lose the majority of its business and/or be shut down.
An auction house like that is simply fleecing everyone. They are not providing any service of value. They are not assisting in the consignment of genuine works in any substantive manner, and they should get 0% of any sale made through their half-assed platform.
I don't knock OP for creating an anonymous account to discuss something like this. A bit like an anonymous whistleblower, albeit less internal.
I have no allegiance to any auction house. I will say this: any auction house that includes a fake work in its auction, and is saved by the eyes of an internet forum member/art fan who managed to spot a fake better than the auction house's own authentication services, should lose the majority of its business and/or be shut down.
An auction house like that is simply fleecing everyone. They are not providing any service of value. They are not assisting in the consignment of genuine works in any substantive manner, and they should get 0% of any sale made through their half-assed platform.
|
|
tab1
Full Member
Posts โข 8,519
Likes โข 3,678
September 2011
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by tab1 on Dec 20, 2020 20:01:30 GMT 1, It would seem the loudest few accounts constantly criticizing tw may sell art via some other outlet and are trying to help themselves by hurting tw. Just looking on when accounts were created and how much they post. Thatโs not to say tw donโt need to get their sh1t together with these petrol posters, they absolutely do, but it seems like the op is deliberately trying to harm them by creating a new thread title on something thatโs been addressed in another thread for hundreds of posts. Looking in from the outside, as one who would never care about a petrol bomb poster, let alone pay thousands for it, it would seem obvious thereโs an ulterior motive to all of this. From reading these threads it doesnโt even seem like op (and about a half dozen other pitchfork wielding accounts) even purchased one of these posters.
I have not bought one so nothing to do with me ? This is why sexism , homophobia and racism continue to exist , as people see the problems and are aware of it but as not directed to towards them , they do not intervene or highlight and address the problems And they continue It is more about the community of collectors , looking out for each other , a few people bought at ยฃ600 a couple of years ago so if you were aware back then you could of purchased . The matter has maybe spread to other items as mentioned with Warhol posters . If not addressed it will effect the whole poster / lower tier items as will put buyers off from purchasing , so it is in everyoneโs interest to have this addressed and people will be stuck with Once expensive posters that would be worthless
It would seem the loudest few accounts constantly criticizing tw may sell art via some other outlet and are trying to help themselves by hurting tw. Just looking on when accounts were created and how much they post. Thatโs not to say tw donโt need to get their sh1t together with these petrol posters, they absolutely do, but it seems like the op is deliberately trying to harm them by creating a new thread title on something thatโs been addressed in another thread for hundreds of posts. Looking in from the outside, as one who would never care about a petrol bomb poster, let alone pay thousands for it, it would seem obvious thereโs an ulterior motive to all of this. From reading these threads it doesnโt even seem like op (and about a half dozen other pitchfork wielding accounts) even purchased one of these posters. I have not bought one so nothing to do with me ? This is why sexism , homophobia and racism continue to exist , as people see the problems and are aware of it but as not directed to towards them , they do not intervene or highlight and address the problems And they continue It is more about the community of collectors , looking out for each other , a few people bought at ยฃ600 a couple of years ago so if you were aware back then you could of purchased . The matter has maybe spread to other items as mentioned with Warhol posters . If not addressed it will effect the whole poster / lower tier items as will put buyers off from purchasing , so it is in everyoneโs interest to have this addressed and people will be stuck with Once expensive posters that would be worthless
|
|
|
samfrost
New Member
Posts โข 782
Likes โข 526
June 2014
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by samfrost on Dec 20, 2020 20:04:32 GMT 1, No dog in this fight, but why hasn't TW and company come clean about where they sourced all of the Petrol posters offered to underbidders, forum members or to various third parties?
The rest of the threads about refunds issued and alleged competitors making hay out of the situation 'tis nothing but a distraction.
No dog in this fight, but why hasn't TW and company come clean about where they sourced all of the Petrol posters offered to underbidders, forum members or to various third parties?
The rest of the threads about refunds issued and alleged competitors making hay out of the situation 'tis nothing but a distraction.
|
|
Rubberneck
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,042
Likes โข 1,420
October 2018
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Rubberneck on Dec 20, 2020 21:35:23 GMT 1, I think some people on here have the wrong idea of what auction houses do. They do *not* authenticate artworks. I don't know of a single auction house that does. If you read the small print, every auction house (and I mean *every* auction house) clearly states that it is the responsibility of any prospective buyer to assess the condition and authenticity of any lot number they are interested in. It is not the auction house's job to do that for you. If you think it may be fake, then don't bid. And if you are spending thousands without doing your homework first, and don't know what a fake looks like, then more fool you. Yes but then they sold them directly and to underbidders in private sales so
I think some people on here have the wrong idea of what auction houses do. They do *not* authenticate artworks. I don't know of a single auction house that does. If you read the small print, every auction house (and I mean *every* auction house) clearly states that it is the responsibility of any prospective buyer to assess the condition and authenticity of any lot number they are interested in. It is not the auction house's job to do that for you. If you think it may be fake, then don't bid. And if you are spending thousands without doing your homework first, and don't know what a fake looks like, then more fool you. Yes but then they sold them directly and to underbidders in private sales so
|
|
JFCC
New Member
Posts โข 389
Likes โข 392
Member is Online
May 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by JFCC on Dec 20, 2020 21:47:45 GMT 1, I think some people on here have the wrong idea of what auction houses do. They do *not* authenticate artworks. I don't know of a single auction house that does. If you read the small print, every auction house (and I mean *every* auction house) clearly states that it is the responsibility of any prospective buyer to assess the condition and authenticity of any lot number they are interested in. It is not the auction house's job to do that for you. If you think it may be fake, then don't bid. And if you are spending thousands without doing your homework first, and don't know what a fake looks like, then more fool you. If that was the case then Auction houses would catalogue any old piece of Art and list it as a long lost Master and leave it up to the buyer to prove otherwise, fortunately that is not the case and we as customers are better protected not least by the Sale of Goods Act.
The law is also very specific on the duty of care and fiduciary duty owed by a seller (an auction house in this case) and recognises the very different positions of knowledge between 'Expert" sellers (Auction Houses, Galleries etc) and the retail buyer. Whilst the auction house does have terms and conditions it cannot remove its obligations to the seller as the underlying principle of law, equity (fairness) shall always prevail. If you would like I will take you through it chapter and verse along with the various precedents, but an auction house listing an item as attributable to an artist is sufficient to give the buyer satisfaction that on the balance of probabilities it is in fact by that artist. So listing Petrol Bomb by Banksy is enough for the buyer to bid in reasonable confidence that it is as thus.
So to return to the point, the Auction House has a duty of care to its customers and it is clear at Tate Ward's own admission they have not been up to the standard required of them morally and more importantly legally, namely, again at their own admission, they have repeatedly sold fakes and allowed an employee to sell more of the same to under bidders.
So, it is not unreasonable to ask how many times has this happened and have they expanded their investigation (if they have had one) to other questionable sale items. I would love them to be transparent, clarify their policy going forward and to be given a chance to move on, clean, but at present it feels like trusting a dog that has bitten you once, is it really not going to do it again given the chance?
So the point of this whole thread, as so eloquently made above, is because we should care, because we simply should not stand idly by and watch good people getting ripped off by unscrupulous conduct which is unlikely to go unchecked unless those who are involved are held to account. Its appalling!!
I think some people on here have the wrong idea of what auction houses do. They do *not* authenticate artworks. I don't know of a single auction house that does. If you read the small print, every auction house (and I mean *every* auction house) clearly states that it is the responsibility of any prospective buyer to assess the condition and authenticity of any lot number they are interested in. It is not the auction house's job to do that for you. If you think it may be fake, then don't bid. And if you are spending thousands without doing your homework first, and don't know what a fake looks like, then more fool you. If that was the case then Auction houses would catalogue any old piece of Art and list it as a long lost Master and leave it up to the buyer to prove otherwise, fortunately that is not the case and we as customers are better protected not least by the Sale of Goods Act. The law is also very specific on the duty of care and fiduciary duty owed by a seller (an auction house in this case) and recognises the very different positions of knowledge between 'Expert" sellers (Auction Houses, Galleries etc) and the retail buyer. Whilst the auction house does have terms and conditions it cannot remove its obligations to the seller as the underlying principle of law, equity (fairness) shall always prevail. If you would like I will take you through it chapter and verse along with the various precedents, but an auction house listing an item as attributable to an artist is sufficient to give the buyer satisfaction that on the balance of probabilities it is in fact by that artist. So listing Petrol Bomb by Banksy is enough for the buyer to bid in reasonable confidence that it is as thus. So to return to the point, the Auction House has a duty of care to its customers and it is clear at Tate Ward's own admission they have not been up to the standard required of them morally and more importantly legally, namely, again at their own admission, they have repeatedly sold fakes and allowed an employee to sell more of the same to under bidders. So, it is not unreasonable to ask how many times has this happened and have they expanded their investigation (if they have had one) to other questionable sale items. I would love them to be transparent, clarify their policy going forward and to be given a chance to move on, clean, but at present it feels like trusting a dog that has bitten you once, is it really not going to do it again given the chance? So the point of this whole thread, as so eloquently made above, is because we should care, because we simply should not stand idly by and watch good people getting ripped off by unscrupulous conduct which is unlikely to go unchecked unless those who are involved are held to account. Its appalling!!
|
|
daniel3886
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,239
Likes โข 989
October 2006
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by daniel3886 on Dec 20, 2020 21:53:58 GMT 1, Just so all are aware this has not been forgotten. As I stated before once I have the facts they will be reported. We have not had responses from all buyers yet so that is my priority.
Just so all are aware this has not been forgotten. As I stated before once I have the facts they will be reported. We have not had responses from all buyers yet so that is my priority.
|
|
daniel3886
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,239
Likes โข 989
October 2006
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by daniel3886 on Dec 20, 2020 21:56:00 GMT 1, Iโm still waiting for Nick to contact me.. He has my name and number .. nothing yet Thanks for the update. That is disappointing given the assurances previously given. Hope you get sorted.
Nick PMโd you directly on the day of your first post and hasnโt had a reply. If you canโt see it or are struggling to find it please mail him directly Nick@tateward.com
Iโm still waiting for Nick to contact me.. He has my name and number .. nothing yet Thanks for the update. That is disappointing given the assurances previously given. Hope you get sorted. Nick PMโd you directly on the day of your first post and hasnโt had a reply. If you canโt see it or are struggling to find it please mail him directly Nick@tateward.com
|
|
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Dec 20, 2020 21:56:21 GMT 1, As mentioned a few times before, this should be a legal matter by now to get to the bottom of 'if'Tate Ward have broken the law or not and either way buyers are hopefully compensated ASAP. Which Daniel said was already happening.
This thread should not be deleted as members need to know exactly what's going on. We'd have a thread for all auction houses, galleries etc if the same occurs. So the thread should remain and be updated.
As mentioned a few times before, this should be a legal matter by now to get to the bottom of 'if'Tate Ward have broken the law or not and either way buyers are hopefully compensated ASAP. Which Daniel said was already happening.
This thread should not be deleted as members need to know exactly what's going on. We'd have a thread for all auction houses, galleries etc if the same occurs. So the thread should remain and be updated.
|
|
orenic
New Member
Posts โข 32
Likes โข 33
December 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by orenic on Dec 21, 2020 8:59:30 GMT 1, Just so all are aware this has not been forgotten. As I stated before once I have the facts they will be reported. We have not had responses from all buyers yet so that is my priority.
Will you be reporting back on the fake Warholโs youโve been selling in all your auctions as well?
Just so all are aware this has not been forgotten. As I stated before once I have the facts they will be reported. We have not had responses from all buyers yet so that is my priority. Will you be reporting back on the fake Warholโs youโve been selling in all your auctions as well?
|
|
eviljguano
New Member
Posts โข 44
Likes โข 69
September 2020
|
Tate Ward selling fakes!, by eviljguano on Dec 21, 2020 13:44:48 GMT 1, I think some people on here have the wrong idea of what auction houses do. They do *not* authenticate artworks. I don't know of a single auction house that does. If you read the small print, every auction house (and I mean *every* auction house) clearly states that it is the responsibility of any prospective buyer to assess the condition and authenticity of any lot number they are interested in. It is not the auction house's job to do that for you. If you think it may be fake, then don't bid. And if you are spending thousands without doing your homework first, and don't know what a fake looks like, then more fool you. As a point of interest, I was going through the process of selling a B through one of the Bond Street Houses and as part of the sale process they get Pest Control in to check the work and provide a new COA and destroy the original one (which they insist upon). Not exactly authentication but as near as damn it.
I think some people on here have the wrong idea of what auction houses do. They do *not* authenticate artworks. I don't know of a single auction house that does. If you read the small print, every auction house (and I mean *every* auction house) clearly states that it is the responsibility of any prospective buyer to assess the condition and authenticity of any lot number they are interested in. It is not the auction house's job to do that for you. If you think it may be fake, then don't bid. And if you are spending thousands without doing your homework first, and don't know what a fake looks like, then more fool you. As a point of interest, I was going through the process of selling a B through one of the Bond Street Houses and as part of the sale process they get Pest Control in to check the work and provide a new COA and destroy the original one (which they insist upon). Not exactly authentication but as near as damn it.
|
|