acaipride
New Member
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April 2020
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by acaipride on Aug 21, 2020 20:05:12 GMT 1, a very subjective thread to all parties involved. cheers!
a very subjective thread to all parties involved. cheers!
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,596
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November 2016
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Jaylove on Aug 21, 2020 20:14:38 GMT 1, Agreed. All those hypebeasts grew up and started collecting "art". I see so many similarities between the art market and early hypebeast days where super limited sneakers were going for a fortune. People would get robbed and killed or ther shoes. Then Nike decided to have general releases and increase the edition numbers and the market normalized. Artists can easily change things but they don't want to. They are loving this. hype, resellers/flippers help the artist.
Agreed. All those hypebeasts grew up and started collecting "art". I see so many similarities between the art market and early hypebeast days where super limited sneakers were going for a fortune. People would get robbed and killed or ther shoes. Then Nike decided to have general releases and increase the edition numbers and the market normalized. Artists can easily change things but they don't want to. They are loving this. hype, resellers/flippers help the artist.
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h.dupa
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Posts โข 398
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October 2017
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by h.dupa on Aug 21, 2020 20:17:30 GMT 1, I'm waiting for the first publisher/artist to do a blind auction. Buyers can e-mail their best offer. If the editionsize is 100, the 100 highest bidders get a print.
TBH. I would actually consider this if i would release a print, knowing half of them would end up at Ebay otherwise.
I'm waiting for the first publisher/artist to do a blind auction. Buyers can e-mail their best offer. If the editionsize is 100, the 100 highest bidders get a print.
TBH. I would actually consider this if i would release a print, knowing half of them would end up at Ebay otherwise.
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Express Post
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January 2008
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Express Post on Aug 21, 2020 20:23:12 GMT 1, U couple years late to the Invader MSF tile edition.
I'm waiting for the first publisher/artist to do a blind auction. Buyers can e-mail their best offer. If the editionsize is 100, the 100 highest bidders get a print. TBH. I would actually consider this if i would release a print, knowing half of them would end up at Ebay otherwise.
U couple years late to the Invader MSF tile edition. I'm waiting for the first publisher/artist to do a blind auction. Buyers can e-mail their best offer. If the editionsize is 100, the 100 highest bidders get a print. TBH. I would actually consider this if i would release a print, knowing half of them would end up at Ebay otherwise. |
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Shoeless
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Posts โข 1,105
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February 2011
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Shoeless on Aug 21, 2020 20:34:09 GMT 1, I would think itโs better for an artist to price low and let the flippers do their job. In the end, it drives hype and inevitably, popularity/demand.
Just a thought
I would think itโs better for an artist to price low and let the flippers do their job. In the end, it drives hype and inevitably, popularity/demand.
Just a thought
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 20:48:52 GMT 1, I would think itโs better for an artist to price low and let the flippers do their job. In the end, it drives hype and inevitably, popularity/demand. Just a thought
Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well
I would think itโs better for an artist to price low and let the flippers do their job. In the end, it drives hype and inevitably, popularity/demand. Just a thought Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 21:36:24 GMT 1, Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well How dare those bloody artists want to be well paid for the years of work theyโve done to get to this point. The cheek of it!
Misunderstanding what Iโm saying. By all means I hope they get paid as I always support artists over galleries
Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well How dare those bloody artists want to be well paid for the years of work theyโve done to get to this point. The cheek of it! Misunderstanding what Iโm saying. By all means I hope they get paid as I always support artists over galleries |
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Shoeless
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,105
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February 2011
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Shoeless on Aug 21, 2020 21:38:52 GMT 1, Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well How dare those bloody artists want to be well paid for the years of work theyโve done to get to this point. The cheek of it!
Right. I respect the artists getting paid and taking the money out of the flippers pockets....although, doing so may have this adverse reaction in which prints sit on the secondary market unsold and, therefore, make the artist less desirable.
Iโm not saying itโs right, but it is the way it is.
I think by now we should all accept that flippers are gonna flip. Iโve seen the same argument for 10+ years now and not much has changed.
Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well How dare those bloody artists want to be well paid for the years of work theyโve done to get to this point. The cheek of it! Right. I respect the artists getting paid and taking the money out of the flippers pockets....although, doing so may have this adverse reaction in which prints sit on the secondary market unsold and, therefore, make the artist less desirable. Iโm not saying itโs right, but it is the way it is. I think by now we should all accept that flippers are gonna flip. Iโve seen the same argument for 10+ years now and not much has changed. |
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kalm
Junior Member
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November 2010
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by kalm on Aug 21, 2020 22:32:13 GMT 1, Greedy, talentless Middlemen. There is your answer.
Greedy, talentless Middlemen. There is your answer.
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medichead
New Member
Posts โข 575
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January 2017
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by medichead on Aug 21, 2020 22:47:04 GMT 1, Sorry for my rant earlier, I just do hope the same people who can comfortably drop ยฃ1k on a print for a hype artist are also supporting the quite literally starving grad/emerging artists on their originals...
As for how to stop whatโs happening: the closest I can imagine a solution would look like is to release through a gallery and the gallery attempt to tightly control who purchases after people register their interest. No bots. Fewer flippers (and once identified, blacklisted). More art to the fans, in theory. Itโs not perfect. People starting a collection could miss out. But chasing secondary market prices is a bad economic strategy - itโs a balancing act...
Sorry for my rant earlier, I just do hope the same people who can comfortably drop ยฃ1k on a print for a hype artist are also supporting the quite literally starving grad/emerging artists on their originals...
As for how to stop whatโs happening: the closest I can imagine a solution would look like is to release through a gallery and the gallery attempt to tightly control who purchases after people register their interest. No bots. Fewer flippers (and once identified, blacklisted). More art to the fans, in theory. Itโs not perfect. People starting a collection could miss out. But chasing secondary market prices is a bad economic strategy - itโs a balancing act...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 23:24:52 GMT 1, I think the problem is that a mediocre nobody like Hebru Brantley sees fellow talentless (but more famous) artists, like Calleja for example, asking a few thousand for their crap cartoon stuff and he thinks "Mmm, I wouldn't mind some of that easy money too". And people are gullible enough to swallow the hype and go for it. Is a Hebru Brantley print worth 1.2K? No, of course it isn't. But whilst people are stupid enough to buy at that price he will continue to churn them out. I find it all quite depressing.
I don't own anything by him. I just think his work is very interesting and very timely.
I think the problem is that a mediocre nobody like Hebru Brantley sees fellow talentless (but more famous) artists, like Calleja for example, asking a few thousand for their crap cartoon stuff and he thinks "Mmm, I wouldn't mind some of that easy money too". And people are gullible enough to swallow the hype and go for it. Is a Hebru Brantley print worth 1.2K? No, of course it isn't. But whilst people are stupid enough to buy at that price he will continue to churn them out. I find it all quite depressing. Totally fair enough not to like him, but think he deserves the respect of at least considering what his work is about. He's not talentless. He may turn out to be quite important. He's doing something more meaningful than a lot of artists that get widely celebrated on here. The fact it looks cartoony doesn't make it cheap. It's part of the point. I don't own anything by him. I just think his work is very interesting and very timely. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 23:38:02 GMT 1, Sorry for my rant earlier, I just do hope the same people who can comfortably drop ยฃ1k on a print for a hype artist are also supporting the quite literally starving grad/emerging artists on their originals... As for how to stop whatโs happening: the closest I can imagine a solution would look like is to release through a gallery and the gallery attempt to tightly control who purchases after people register their interest. No bots. Fewer flippers (and once identified, blacklisted). More art to the fans, in theory. Itโs not perfect. People starting a collection could miss out. But chasing secondary market prices is a bad economic strategy - itโs a balancing act...
You didn't use this term, someone else did, so it's not directed at you, but it's so snobbish to term things "real art" and, presumably, 'fake art'. Ironically, it's the same attitude that considers street art not "real art" because it doesn't have the formal technique of classical painting.
Sorry for my rant earlier, I just do hope the same people who can comfortably drop ยฃ1k on a print for a hype artist are also supporting the quite literally starving grad/emerging artists on their originals... As for how to stop whatโs happening: the closest I can imagine a solution would look like is to release through a gallery and the gallery attempt to tightly control who purchases after people register their interest. No bots. Fewer flippers (and once identified, blacklisted). More art to the fans, in theory. Itโs not perfect. People starting a collection could miss out. But chasing secondary market prices is a bad economic strategy - itโs a balancing act... They're not mutually exclusive. You can like, and buy, popular art and art by little known artists. You didn't use this term, someone else did, so it's not directed at you, but it's so snobbish to term things "real art" and, presumably, 'fake art'. Ironically, it's the same attitude that considers street art not "real art" because it doesn't have the formal technique of classical painting. |
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LJCal
Junior Member
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December 2019
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by LJCal on Aug 22, 2020 0:01:20 GMT 1, Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters.
Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters.
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LJCal
Junior Member
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December 2019
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by LJCal on Aug 22, 2020 0:03:01 GMT 1, Itโs a travesty. There are so many good artists out there, people could be picking up large original canvases from MFA shows and supporting an emergjng artist with huge potential for serious gains in the long term, but at the very least a beautiful work of art to hang on the wall. Instead, theyโre buying a cartoon that - at best - might double in value, all the while looking slightly embarrassing on your wall when your friends come and see your kaws statues, murukami cushions, and kasuma pumpkins... I wish people would examine why they like the art that they do...
Itโs a travesty. There are so many good artists out there, people could be picking up large original canvases from MFA shows and supporting an emergjng artist with huge potential for serious gains in the long term, but at the very least a beautiful work of art to hang on the wall. Instead, theyโre buying a cartoon that - at best - might double in value, all the while looking slightly embarrassing on your wall when your friends come and see your kaws statues, murukami cushions, and kasuma pumpkins... I wish people would examine why they like the art that they do... With GDP welcome mat at the front door! |
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Express Post
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,330
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January 2008
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Express Post on Aug 22, 2020 0:34:25 GMT 1, Chillax mun. Ya gonna give yerself a stroke.
Don't hate da playa, hate da game.
Yer not payin for the giclee. Yer payin for his experience and imagination it took to create dat imagery and dat signature.
If he had released with Counter Editions, it would have started at ยฃ2,000 with tiered pricing up to ยฃ10,000.
They're not mutually exclusive. You can like, and buy, popular art and art by little known artists. You didn't use this term, someone else did, so it's not directed at you, but it's so snobbish to term things "real art" and, presumably, 'fake art'. Ironically, it's the same attitude that considers street art not "real art" because it doesn't have the formal technique of classical painting.ย I quite like his style, itโs recognizable. Therefore I think that a GICLEE print with who knows what quality colours, edition of 175 + 20 AP/PPs that goes on the market for $1200 is a rip off, taking the piss and sending a big f-off to whoever would like a copy. Also heโs taking all the money. no gallery, no charity, nothing (See Shepard Fairey for instance). I donโt know the guy but today he gave me the perfect idea of what heโs doing. He also removed my comment from Instagram.
Chillax mun. Ya gonna give yerself a stroke. Don't hate da playa, hate da game. Yer not payin for the giclee. Yer payin for his experience and imagination it took to create dat imagery and dat signature. If he had released with Counter Editions, it would have started at ยฃ2,000 with tiered pricing up to ยฃ10,000. They're not mutually exclusive. You can like, and buy, popular art and art by little known artists. You didn't use this term, someone else did, so it's not directed at you, but it's so snobbish to term things "real art" and, presumably, 'fake art'. Ironically, it's the same attitude that considers street art not "real art" because it doesn't have the formal technique of classical painting.ย I quite like his style, itโs recognizable. Therefore I think that a GICLEE print with who knows what quality colours, edition of 175 + 20 AP/PPs that goes on the market for $1200 is a rip off, taking the piss and sending a big f-off to whoever would like a copy. Also heโs taking all the money. no gallery, no charity, nothing (See Shepard Fairey for instance). I donโt know the guy but today he gave me the perfect idea of what heโs doing. He also removed my comment from Instagram. |
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christiangul
New Member
Posts โข 365
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June 2017
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by christiangul on Aug 22, 2020 7:14:34 GMT 1, As for how to stop whatโs happening: the closest I can imagine a solution would look like is to release through a gallery and the gallery attempt to tightly control who purchases after people register their interest. No bots. Fewer flippers (and once identified, blacklisted). More art to the fans, in theory. Itโs not perfect.
Exactly this is what happened with Mehdi through Howard Griffin.
I think it worked out very well. Mehdi hasnโt become flippable, and thatโs just fine for all of us bought to hang.
As for how to stop whatโs happening: the closest I can imagine a solution would look like is to release through a gallery and the gallery attempt to tightly control who purchases after people register their interest. No bots. Fewer flippers (and once identified, blacklisted). More art to the fans, in theory. Itโs not perfect. Exactly this is what happened with Mehdi through Howard Griffin. I think it worked out very well. Mehdi hasnโt become flippable, and thatโs just fine for all of us bought to hang. |
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christiangul
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June 2017
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by christiangul on Aug 22, 2020 7:18:42 GMT 1, Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters.
It isnโt sure 195 people were happy with the price.
I would say itโs more than 50% probability that not all 195 were made available to purchase. Like most releases a lot of the editions are held back to create a demand later.
Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters. It isnโt sure 195 people were happy with the price. I would say itโs more than 50% probability that not all 195 were made available to purchase. Like most releases a lot of the editions are held back to create a demand later. |
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mojo
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,017
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May 2014
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by mojo on Aug 22, 2020 10:24:51 GMT 1, I would think itโs better for an artist to price low and let the flippers do their job. In the end, it drives hype and inevitably, popularity/demand. Just a thought Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well
Maybe the artist did not announce the price of the edition before it went on sale to deter those that will exploit them, annoying for the genuine fans that may not be able to afford the work anymore although perhaps necessary for the artist to progress in their chosen career.
I would think itโs better for an artist to price low and let the flippers do their job. In the end, it drives hype and inevitably, popularity/demand. Just a thought Totally agree and was going to say the same thing. It goes back to artists just making it for art as well Yeah because artists love it when they use their own time and money to create an artwork to sell affordably to their fan base to then watch a load of capitalist arseholes without any interest in art make instant profit off the back of it while they just about break even, "let the flippers do their job" what job is that exactly? Exploiting artists and genuine buyers for personal greed, the only people they are providing a service to is themselves. Maybe the artist did not announce the price of the edition before it went on sale to deter those that will exploit them, annoying for the genuine fans that may not be able to afford the work anymore although perhaps necessary for the artist to progress in their chosen career. |
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medichead
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Posts โข 575
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January 2017
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by medichead on Aug 22, 2020 11:11:49 GMT 1, Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters.
You could well be right, but it also may not be quite that simple.
A large proportion of those 195 will be speculating on the price. This is quite different and from the artists POV not ideal or good for their long term career prospects.
Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters. You could well be right, but it also may not be quite that simple. A large proportion of those 195 will be speculating on the price. This is quite different and from the artists POV not ideal or good for their long term career prospects. |
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 11:23:11 GMT 1, Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters. You could well be right, but it also may not be quite that simple. A large proportion of those 195 will be speculating on the price. This is quite different and from the artists POV not ideal or good for their long term career prospects.
Also notice that those complaining they couldn't buy the recent release haven't said why they wanted to buy it or why this image is something they'd like to put on their wall. All they've said is it's too expensive.
Surely if the print sold out then there is nothing wrong with the price? Great thing about capitalism is if you think a price is too high you don't have to buy the item, clearly 195 people were happy with the price and I think from the artist point of view (as it's their living) thats all that matters. You could well be right, but it also may not be quite that simple. A large proportion of those 195 will be speculating on the price. This is quite different and from the artists POV not ideal or good for their long term career prospects. You seem not to entertain the possibility that people like Hebru Brantley's art and think it has artistic value. Have you looked at When The Wind Is At Your Back? Do you have any thoughts on what it might be about? Do you have any thoughts on his work in general? Also notice that those complaining they couldn't buy the recent release haven't said why they wanted to buy it or why this image is something they'd like to put on their wall. All they've said is it's too expensive. |
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fonebone45
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August 2014
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by fonebone45 on Aug 22, 2020 20:32:47 GMT 1, These artists/galleries could simply put a "no reselling within 2 years" clause into the purchases, but they choose not to.
These artists/galleries could simply put a "no reselling within 2 years" clause into the purchases, but they choose not to.
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fonebone45
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Posts โข 343
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August 2014
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by fonebone45 on Aug 22, 2020 22:48:10 GMT 1, These artists/galleries could simply put a "no reselling within 2 years" clause into the purchases, but they choose not to. I got a TIDE print with a 3 year clause, but I am not sure how they can respect this? I know the charity ones generally have a clause but I have seen them after 2 months in auctions no problem..
These artists/galleries could simply put a "no reselling within 2 years" clause into the purchases, but they choose not to. I got a TIDE print with a 3 year clause, but I am not sure how they can respect this? I know the charity ones generally have a clause but I have seen them after 2 months in auctions no problem.. Well theoretically it gets you blacklisted from future purchases, as they're looking to put work in the hands of serious collectors/collections and not just anyone. In practice though it doesn't always work. There could be some suing involved with breach of contract, and/or taking back the work. The artist could also choose to deaccession the piece and unclaim ownership of having produced it which would make the value drop. |
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Momo
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,032
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March 2014
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by Momo on Aug 23, 2020 1:08:39 GMT 1, you're definitely right but it is what it is, they take advantage of the new collectors that don't do their research and think everything goes up in value after selling out. There are a lot of art out there, if one starts pricing things ridiculously, on to the next one
Exactly, but run the risk of crashing their own market or slowing it to the point where interest is lost. Pricing is very difficult but important. Some artists I've noticed also flood their own markets. I feel like somebody needs to sit them down and explain how the hype and secondary market is linked to their releases, particularly when they are not blue chip and how few artists become blue chip.
you're definitely right but it is what it is, they take advantage of the new collectors that don't do their research and think everything goes up in value after selling out. There are a lot of art out there, if one starts pricing things ridiculously, on to the next one Exactly, but run the risk of crashing their own market or slowing it to the point where interest is lost. Pricing is very difficult but important. Some artists I've noticed also flood their own markets. I feel like somebody needs to sit them down and explain how the hype and secondary market is linked to their releases, particularly when they are not blue chip and how few artists become blue chip. |
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fonebone45
New Member
Posts โข 343
Likes โข 261
August 2014
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by fonebone45 on Aug 23, 2020 20:10:28 GMT 1, you're definitely right but it is what it is, they take advantage of the new collectors that don't do their research and think everything goes up in value after selling out. There are a lot of art out there, if one starts pricing things ridiculously, on to the next one Exactly, but run the risk of crashing their own market or slowing it to the point where interest is lost. Pricing is very difficult but important. Some artists I've noticed also flood their own markets. I feel like somebody needs to sit them down and explain how the hype and secondary market is linked to their releases, particularly when they are not blue chip and how few artists become blue chip.
you're definitely right but it is what it is, they take advantage of the new collectors that don't do their research and think everything goes up in value after selling out. There are a lot of art out there, if one starts pricing things ridiculously, on to the next one Exactly, but run the risk of crashing their own market or slowing it to the point where interest is lost. Pricing is very difficult but important. Some artists I've noticed also flood their own markets. I feel like somebody needs to sit them down and explain how the hype and secondary market is linked to their releases, particularly when they are not blue chip and how few artists become blue chip. Yeah the frequency of releases and lack of much difference between prints (lots of cookie cutter type stuff lately) is getting a bit silly. imo |
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qwerty
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Posts โข 312
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July 2020
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by qwerty on Aug 23, 2020 20:57:30 GMT 1, If u mad at the price of the edition, ur gonna need to sit down and take an ambien when you find out how much his last batch of ogs sold for. 
If u mad at the price of the edition, ur gonna need to sit down and take an ambien when you find out how much his last batch of ogs sold for. Im not mad but i'll sit down and take a couple anyway |
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bumix
New Member
Posts โข 68
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August 2020
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by bumix on Aug 24, 2020 22:12:01 GMT 1, How cool would it be if Banksy would indefinitely reprint his original editions to stop this crazy rally. That would be a funny move and draw peopleโs attention back to where he wanted it to be: political messages, criticizing Police, Governments, Israel...,
If I where him I would be sad to see that most prople see $$$ in him.
Or maybe Stik is starting to make real innovative art. Just joking - he must laugh every day that people pay so much for his boring works....poor artists like Vhils or Hush (among many more) who still create stuff....
How cool would it be if Banksy would indefinitely reprint his original editions to stop this crazy rally. That would be a funny move and draw peopleโs attention back to where he wanted it to be: political messages, criticizing Police, Governments, Israel...,
If I where him I would be sad to see that most prople see $$$ in him.
Or maybe Stik is starting to make real innovative art. Just joking - he must laugh every day that people pay so much for his boring works....poor artists like Vhils or Hush (among many more) who still create stuff....
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ejg9044
New Member
Posts โข 50
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November 2013
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Are artists gone bonkers?, by ejg9044 on Aug 26, 2020 16:45:42 GMT 1, How cool would it be if Banksy would indefinitely reprint his original editions to stop this crazy rally. That would be a funny move and draw peopleโs attention back to where he wanted it to be: political messages, criticizing Police, Governments, Israel..., If I where him I would be sad to see that most prople see $$$ in him.
even if it did, that would do absolutely nothing to slow down demand for (what would then become) "first edition" prints. if anything, it could make them even more valuable
How cool would it be if Banksy would indefinitely reprint his original editions to stop this crazy rally. That would be a funny move and draw peopleโs attention back to where he wanted it to be: political messages, criticizing Police, Governments, Israel..., If I where him I would be sad to see that most prople see $$$ in him. never going to happen even if it did, that would do absolutely nothing to slow down demand for (what would then become) "first edition" prints. if anything, it could make them even more valuable |
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