[gm]

They maybe priced like the Grin Reaper was which was UKP £400 (i seem to remember)

But there are only 300 of those, anywhere, and they're all signed.

[etienne07]

I heard you will be able to buy 1 copy of a print,from POW and if you find away to buy more and sell them on Ebay,you will be removed from the list.

[etienne07]

I heard you will be able to buy 1 copy of a print,from POW and if you find away to buy more and sell them on Ebay,you will be removed from the list.

[foundation]

fair enough! suits me, only want one copy.

[Ågent ßacardi]

I wish there were a device that could allow POW to detect true Banksy fans who want his work on their walls rather than in their eBay shops. Having been on a POW mailing list on a while doesn't really say anything, because scalpers have just as much a right to be on there as us true-blue fans (all it takes is typing your email address in, and a click of the mouse!). Also, just because you've just subscribed to the POW mailing list last month doesn't say that you're definitely a scalper, you could be a newborn avid fan.

Personally, I also doubt that POW's raising the price would stop scalpers. It'll inflate the prices even more, that's for sure. You'd see a listing on eBay that goes "Acquired from POW for £600, now selling for £2000", making it even worse of the fans who want his works on their walls, but can't afford two thousand friggin' pounds (not that we can afford the scalper prices as it currently stands).

We need a lie detector!!!

[trowel]

curley said:

The new prints will surely have to be the equiverlent of USD 500
otherwise there will be 100 pissed off people who bought at the show.

I guess the LA prints will have added value in future due to their low run number and the unique torn effect. Easy to identify from the later prints too.

Will there be a signed run in the remaining prints? Be a bit odd for the higher numbers to be the signed ones...?

[bonesy]

My guess is the signed will be 1-50 as LA is #50-150.

[pw]

its also possible that 1-500 will be unsigned, and there'll be an additional signed run of 150.
that would bring it in line with other print runs. just a thouht....

[ratpack]

Has anyone got a link or could post a picture or set of the new prints?

Thanks!

;D

[gm]

I'm pretty sure you'll find links and/or pictures in the LA show thread.

[Ågent ßacardi]

Has anyone got a link or could post a picture or set of the new prints?

Thanks!

Here are 4 of the 6, mate

"Festival":
cgi.ebay.com/Banksy-Festival-print-107-500_W0QQitemZ290036573031QQihZ019QQcategoryZ20149QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"Sale Ends":
cgi.ebay.com/Banksy-Barely-Legal-Sale-Ends-Today-print-89-500_W0QQitemZ150041499573QQihZ005QQcategoryZ20148QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"Grannies"
banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1159891907&page=1

"Applause" (thanks to cosmic)
server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=IMG_1699.2f9.jpg

[scooter]

There is one way to ensure that people who really want the work on their walls to get them....print more! Larger editions! Or...by not making them limited editions. Yes, true it would stop the value from increasing as much...but isn't that the point? It would stop scalpers for sure b/c they couldn't turn around and sell them for exhorbitant prices.

It all boils down to supply and demand and the fact is that there is such a limited supply and high demand and scalpers know that.

And agentbacardi is right...you can't determine the legitimacy of a Banksy fan by how long they've been on the mailing list. It's true that the people who have been following his work for years, even a decade, are true fans. But there are people who truly enjoy his work and what he is about that did not have the privilege of knowing that he even existed until recently. I include myself in that category. And now that I know....I am hooked! I think he's brilliant and would love to have my walls chock-full of his work. But I've also missed the boat on that opportunity as the prices are so ridiculous!! I have no problem with someone who has had a print for awhile and decides to sell it for whatever reason it may be. But I do have a problem with those people who buy only to resell and unfortunately it seems like that was the intention of a lot of people in L.A. I have gotten so many unsolicited offers from people selling sets of their LA prints just b/c they've seen me bid on some other Banksy prints. And as much as I'd like to have those prints, I don't want to reward scalpers by buying them. So, I tell myself that I'll get them when they come out through POW. But then I see all the postings on this forum about people not even believing that they will make it to the POW site. So, then I'm screwed.

Back to my original point, if Banksy demanded that his prints be made in editions of 6000 instead of 600...a lot of people would really reconsider buying them. Except for those people who really love his work!

[scooter]

Ratpack...here's a link to an auction for the set of 6. It ended but you can still check out the photos for all 6 prints.

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250034801509&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[foundation]

Nah, I dont buy it scooter, nice as it would be to think that unlimited runs are the way it should have been and the way it should go, if banksy was churning out some athena style girl rubbing her ass in a tennis dress style of ten quid posters, then i firmly believe he wouldnt be where he is today ( where-ever that may be). The limited runs and subversive themes have kept fans guessing and working for years to build collections, as you say you missed the boat, nobodies fault, just the way it goes sometimes, accept it, moaning aint going to change anything. As little as 6 weeks ago there were banksy bargains to be had and once the furore settles I sure they will come around again. Half the interest and fun of collecting Banksy's is hunting down that illusive print you want. I'm not having a go but the system is here and it works as well as any other, the sclapers had just as much chance as you to buy the prints, they got them you didn't, if you want them now unfortunately they want a lot more now than when they got them, c'est la vie. Its easy to want everything in the here and now, but where's the fun in that.

[gm]

I don't want any of the new ones. Don't like any of them enough to want to look at them every day.

Back to my original point, if Banksy demanded that his prints be made in editions of 6000 instead of 600...a lot of people would really reconsider buying them. Except for those people who really love his work!

[scooter]

Foundation, I think you've got me wrong. I'm not moaning...just echoing a point made by many other fans who have been around far longer than I have. There are a lot of die-hard Banksy fans who will no longer be able to afford his work. People who have been collecting his work for a long time at affordable prices. I was merely offering a solution to a problem that had been posed by those people. And now you're saying tough luck to those people just b/c there are a bunch of wannabee art dealers out there who want to make a quick buck on art they couldn't care less about. If that's the case, then Foundation, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if POW changed their one print/person policy for each of the new editions. That way the first lucky person will get to buy everything up and enjoy selling them back to you!

Don't you get what is fundamentally wrong with scalping (art no less)? And what bugs you about large editions anyway? Worried about other people having your print? That's what originals are for. It won't devalue any of the previous editions. Doesn't diminish the work people have done to establish their art collections. Just stops future Banksy prints from being traded like Microsoft stock circa 1995.

[foundation]

Scooter, I think the best thing POW have done in years is introduce the one person/1 print limit, therefore preventing as much as is possible the scalpers getting their hands on multiple prints, I also beleive that the problem of scalpers bulk buying prints and selling them on is virtually non existant. If you can find 2 good examples of an individual selling multiple coppies of the same print ( lets say 4+ copies of the same print), then I will get closer to beleiving its a problem. Many of the love rats, and virgin mary seen on ebay are the same prints being circulated pillar to post, its worth keeping an eye on the numbers as well as the print. As RKlimek pointed out yesterday, the first rule of art is dont water down your product, its a good rule, you talk about die hard fans who will no longer be able to afford his work, diehard fans will have been able to pick up what prints they wanted for their collections over the years at affordable prices, or do you mean all the diehard fans that have decided they are diehard fans in the last 5 weeks? I dont like the idea of scalping, and to be truthfull dont think its a major problem, its just an easy idea to try to blame someone else for our own lack of foresite. There are a few prints that I know i will not be able to add to my collection now (pulp fiction, bombhugger, love is in the air) but I also know that some machevailian mastermind isn't hoarding a big bundle of them in their loft, prints get sold, prints find a home then prints dont get sold, fewer in circulation therefore less supply, higher demand.
Personally I dont like the idea of larger print runs, as it would take the fun out of it for me, as I tried to relate yesterday, hunting a print down and securing its sale, waiting for it to arrive and getting it framed, is half the fun of banksy collecting, going to POW and ordering one of every print banksy has ever done for 300 quid getting 30 shiny posters out their respective tubes may not devalue to original prints but I do think it devalues yourself, anything worth having is worth working for.

[gm]

you talk about die hard fans who will no longer be able to afford his work, diehard fans will have been able to pick up what prints they wanted for their collections over the years at affordable prices,

You can't generalize like that. I think it was £40 that POW were selling unsigned GWBs for a couple of years ago. £40 was a coat for one of my children, or a pair of shoes for each of them, or half the weekly shopping bill, so I had to leave the pretty picture. And then it was gone. It's only in the past year/18 months that I've had the occasional spare bit of cash to treat myself with, and I know I'm far from being the only person in that position.

Personally I dont like the idea of larger print runs, as it would take the fun out of it for me, as I tried to relate yesterday, hunting a print down and securing its sale, waiting for it to arrive and getting it framed, is half the fun of banksy collecting, going to POW and ordering one of every print banksy has ever done for 300 quid getting 30 shiny posters out their respective tubes may not devalue to original prints but I do think it devalues yourself, anything worth having is worth working for.

Just out of curiosity, are you a male with no children?

[foundation]

Male with children GM, relevance? Been interested in Banksy stuff for a few years now, bought when I could, caught up with other prints when i could, sold prints when I had to, only ever owned a single double print, which I gave away. POW can launch as many of the new prints as they like, as only one interests me, just getting a bit fed up feeling I have to justify myself for having been a collector for a while. I have a nice collection and have worked hard for it, as I have no doubt others have too, but being made to feel guilty by someone who read about banksy last week and decides they are a fan for the next fornight, until the next In thing comes along, and getting all bent out of shape because they missed out on prints that were freely available for months at POW.
I am not saying we all haver every print we want ( read my last post) but I am sure you have one or 2 special prints that you managed to get, and still cherrish.
Ok you picked out 2 things that you didn't agree with in my posting, what is your opinion on the perceived problem of scalpers? rereleasing every print again in unlimited runs? just interested in other peoples opinion as mine is seeming to be off the mark.

[ratpack]

Thanks for the link Scooter

[scooter]

Foundation...you keep missing my point, I am not talking about previous prints. It's totally different now. You have to accept that the Barely Legal show has changed Banksy's career for good and where you used to enjoy "hunting down" the prints you wanted, you'll be vying for prints of the same size editions with an audience that is exponentially bigger. That, in and of itself, will be your new challenge. But add to that fact, not only more fans, but more non-fans looking at his work like a cash-cow. Not sure your "hunt" will be much fun anymore.

You keep inserting little digs at me in your postings. You cannot delegitimize my appreciation for Banksy just because I haven't known about him as long as you have...that's a little juvenile. This isn't some high school clique. I didn't know about him until this year...c'est la vie...I'm not crying about it. I was just offering a solution to a problem voiced by other people. Other people who have collections who are now concerned about new releases and how the current feeding frenzy will affect the affordability of prints. Just read GM's post. You keep making this about me...and this isn't about me...I thought I made that clear. I am fortunate to have expendable income and I spend most of it on art. But, it hasn't always been that way for me and so I understand what it's like for someone who doesn't have the same means. Remember, there's a reason that Banksy chose to have larger, unsigned editions. It was to offer a more economical option for fans of his work. And if he had editions of 500 three years ago when his fanbase was probably smaller by a factor of at least 20 (conservative estimate), then doesn't it make sense to make the edition sizes bigger now? And by the way, I never said anything about making the signed editions larger. Those would still offer a collector the choice of a small edition and not price out those with smaller budgets. I mean, isn't accessibility to the masses what Banksy is all about? If not, then why else does he do graffiti??

Yes, POW puts a limit. But...not sure if the same went for L.A. You say that you don't see scalping? Well what do you call a guy on ebay selling his second suite of prints from the show...so who knows how many more sets he had to sell. (Btw, I guess making double his money in 2 weeks on those prints wasn't even enough b/c the auction ended at U.S. $5300 without meeting the reserve.) Plus I got two other unsolicited offers to buy entire sets. So far that makes 4 sets that I know of (I'm sure there are more selling outside of ebay). I would not be surprised when all is said and done that at least 25% of the prints were purchased to resell. Out of principal, I have a problem with that.

[scooter]

Ratpack: No Problem!!

Foundation: Just to clarify one more thing...I NEVER talked about re-releasing previous print editions!!! I want that to be absolutely clear. That would obviously be totally wrong to do as an edition is determined to be limited/unlimited prior to release. I was talking about FUTURE prints to respond to the growing demand and growing problem of scalping. And scalping will only get worse. When more people find out that they can buy a print today and turn around and sell it for double/triple what they paid in a matter of just weeks they will. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to buy more than one set.

[foundation]

Scooter I have not the faintest of ideas who you are, so no personal dig was intended, I was working from my own viewpoint of it takes me a while to become so interested in something to the point where I would describe myself as a diehard fan, rather than a few months and bang there it is. I find that type of attitude a bit fickle, to use the high school analogy again, it who's my best mate this week.
The way I read your post must have been wrong as i thought you were referring to previous issue's of prints you had missed out on, hence using the soup can as an example, as i stated, I'm not really that bothered about the next print release as there is only 1 print I am interested in. As also stated before i am no fan of the scalpers, but if you feel that open end runs will help, then get in touch with POW and broach the subject with them.

[numusic]

gm said:

I don't want any of the new ones. Don't like any of them enough to want to look at them every day.

Back to my original point, if Banksy demanded that his prints be made in editions of 6000 instead of 600...a lot of people would really reconsider buying them. Except for those people who really love his work!

Yeah ! I agree, I bought the Festival cos I run a Festival and Sale Ends is kinda ok but not a patch on CWS, very Gary Larsen'esque. Funny for ten minutes but not much art for your money here. Much more interested in his Stencil work. Was very disappointed in this series. Doubt i'll be buying any.

[numusic]

scooter said:

Foundation, I think you've got me wrong. I'm not moaning...just echoing a point made by many other fans who have been around far longer than I have. There are a lot of die-hard Banksy fans who will no longer be able to afford his work. People who have been collecting his work for a long time at affordable prices. I was merely offering a solution to a problem that had been posed by those people. And now you're saying tough luck to those people just b/c there are a bunch of wannabee art dealers out there who want to make a quick buck on art they couldn't care less about. If that's the case, then Foundation, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if POW changed their one print/person policy for each of the new editions. That way the first lucky person will get to buy everything up and enjoy selling them back to you!

Don't you get what is fundamentally wrong with scalping (art no less)? And what bugs you about large editions anyway? Worried about other people having your print? That's what originals are for. It won't devalue any of the previous editions. Doesn't diminish the work people have done to establish their art collections. Just stops future Banksy prints from being traded like Microsoft stock circa 1995.

Must say I agree, the POW concept of 'Affordable Art' is in place for all the other artists, Edition sizes for Banksys have been going up since day one. Would like to see a 2000-3000+ edition of one image at the same price as D*face,. Insect etc.

[mido]

I remember the first time I bought some prints at POW - Hick, CND soldiers, & a 3D. It was weird. even spending £45 on a print seemed very weird, let alone £75, espec for a down to earth person like me. It was certainly nothing that I had ever done before and nothing that what part of my heritage and history. I 'had' to pay £160 for a Moneky Queen on ebay which at the time seemed like I had cut my own head off.

I think I was the first person on here to suggest that each print should have an accompanying £10 litho version (even if the prints were different, like the soup can was), so then people can decide what they can afford / want to buy.

gm said:

you talk about die hard fans who will no longer be able to afford his work, diehard fans will have been able to pick up what prints they wanted for their collections over the years at affordable prices,

You can't generalize like that. I think it was £40 that POW were selling unsigned GWBs for a couple of years ago. £40 was a coat for one of my children, or a pair of shoes for each of them, or half the weekly shopping bill, so I had to leave the pretty picture. And then it was gone. It's only in the past year/18 months that I've had the occasional spare bit of cash to treat myself with, and I know I'm far from being the only person in that position.

Personally I dont like the idea of larger print runs, as it would take the fun out of it for me, as I tried to relate yesterday, hunting a print down and securing its sale, waiting for it to arrive and getting it framed, is half the fun of banksy collecting, going to POW and ordering one of every print banksy has ever done for 300 quid getting 30 shiny posters out their respective tubes may not devalue to original prints but I do think it devalues yourself, anything worth having is worth working for.

Just out of curiosity, are you a male with no children?

[foundation]

Have you still only got the CND and Monkey queen martin, or have you managed to pick one or 2 more up over the last few years?

[gm]

very Gary Larsen'esque

Twilight zone moment! I was just thinking that if Gary Larsen went on hols for a week the images on the new Banksy prints would make an acceptable substitute to fill his corner of the newspaper.

Male with children GM, relevance?

Mainly just curiosity. In my (real life) experience the people who say "why didn't you get it when POW were selling them for peanuts?" are without fail single men with no children, who fail to take account that some people's wages are spoken for as soon as they go into the bank.

just getting a bit fed up feeling I have to justify myself for having been a collector for a while. I have a nice collection and have worked hard for it, as I have no doubt others have too, but being made to feel guilty by someone who read about banksy last week and decides they are a fan for the next fornight, until the next In thing comes along, and getting all bent out of shape because they missed out on prints that were freely available for months at POW.

You don't have to justify yourself to me (or anyone else, I imagine) for having been able to get the prints you wanted. Why on earth would you feel guilty? Who's making you feel guilty? Guilty of what? If you're saying that I'm getting 'bent out of shape' because there were a few prints that I wanted but never got at the time you're way off the mark.

I am not saying we all haver every print we want ( read my last post) but I am sure you have one or 2 special prints that you managed to get, and still cherrish.
Ok you picked out 2 things that you didn't agree with in my posting, what is your opinion on the perceived problem of scalpers? rereleasing every print again in unlimited runs? just interested in other peoples opinion as mine is seeming to be off the mark.

You can count the banksy prints I own on one hand. And I love every one of them to pieces. So what if I never managed to get every one that I wanted? That's life. Maybe there's one or two regrets, but nothing that's eating away at me.

Scalpers? If nobody was mug enough to pay their inflated prices, they would have to lower the prices.

Unlimited runs? Bring it on.

Or perhaps a limited edition for the "collectors" and a hugely less limited one for the "fans" would be the answer.

All fans are not necessarily collectors.

All collectors are not necessarily fans.

Brings back memories of winding up rabid fanboys at sci fi conventions by buying limited edition action figures, taking them out of their packaging and (shock horror) playing with them!

[foundation]

GM wasn't getting at you, I seem to have misinterpreted comments made yesterday and today through this discussion, my interp of several posts were some newer collectors / fans may have been upset at missing out on previous prints and were blaming other people for bulk buying to sell on ( which I still dont believe is a problem the actually happens). I pointed out that the prints were for sale for long enough that those who wanted them tended to get them, I have been corrected on this and it was new releases that were being discussed with the option to have larger run sizes. I do hope nobody has been offended and we can all go back to being nice happy people discussing little of relevance

[gm]

Well I think this thread's brought up some really interesting points. A nice heated discussion that didn't descend into a slagging contest.

More threads like this one!