Daniel Silk
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URBAN ART ASSOCIATION
Posts: 28,486 
Location: Asia
Member Since: January 2006
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Election to be held on 12 December , by Daniel Silk on Dec 13, 2019 12:49:22 GMT 1, I think Labour had big opportunities in the last decade to gain power as the Conservative leaders have been pretty weak and unpopular, but now I think Boris will gain more and more followers from traditional Labour familes, much more than any conservative leaders in living memory.
Labour need an absolute miracle now!
I think Labour had big opportunities in the last decade to gain power as the Conservative leaders have been pretty weak and unpopular, but now I think Boris will gain more and more followers from traditional Labour familes, much more than any conservative leaders in living memory.
Labour need an absolute miracle now!
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jingle
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Posts: 1,970
Member Since: November 2013
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Election to be held on 12 December , by jingle on Dec 13, 2019 12:50:03 GMT 1, It’s the same old same old story, Labour Party and it’s supporters massively out of touch with the mood of rest of the country and getting a good beating again and again. Will Labour finally wake up! Or will they continue on their slow decline and become the third party? They are lucky Lib Dem have also been a mess for the last few elections, otherwise I could see Labour being a long way behind in third place. I think you are very wrong there. The main issue was that people wanted the Brexit issue over and done with more than anything else. The thought even occurred to me that I should vote Tory just to have an end to all the indecision and lack of movement on any other issue owing to the overwhelming fog of Brexit. Thankfully I realised that voting in Boris wasn't just getting Brexit done but 5 years of Tory rule and a lot of people would suffer during this time, not me personally, but people a lot less fortunate. The Labour party have always been a party of the people and I think it won't take long before this is realised and people who voted for Boris and his Brexit deal will regret their actions. I don't know why the media was so anti Corbyn, I did wonder if they were more afraid of his straight talking than anything else.
It’s the same old same old story, Labour Party and it’s supporters massively out of touch with the mood of rest of the country and getting a good beating again and again. Will Labour finally wake up! Or will they continue on their slow decline and become the third party? They are lucky Lib Dem have also been a mess for the last few elections, otherwise I could see Labour being a long way behind in third place. I think you are very wrong there. The main issue was that people wanted the Brexit issue over and done with more than anything else. The thought even occurred to me that I should vote Tory just to have an end to all the indecision and lack of movement on any other issue owing to the overwhelming fog of Brexit. Thankfully I realised that voting in Boris wasn't just getting Brexit done but 5 years of Tory rule and a lot of people would suffer during this time, not me personally, but people a lot less fortunate. The Labour party have always been a party of the people and I think it won't take long before this is realised and people who voted for Boris and his Brexit deal will regret their actions. I don't know why the media was so anti Corbyn, I did wonder if they were more afraid of his straight talking than anything else. You don't think it had anything todo with his socialist agenda, years of sympathizing with terrorists, tax hikes and not to mention the lack of a position on Brexit that put a huge majority of people off? There was plenty of middle ground Labour Party could of had but the party rejected and went with Corbyn and his ideology and the people roundly rejected it.. |
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printminx
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Posts: 99 
Member Since: February 2018
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Election to be held on 12 December , by printminx on Dec 13, 2019 12:51:09 GMT 1, I think you are very wrong there. The main issue was that people wanted the Brexit issue over and done with more than anything else. The thought even occurred to me that I should vote Tory just to have an end to all the indecision and lack of movement on any other issue owing to the overwhelming fog of Brexit. Thankfully I realised that voting in Boris wasn't just getting Brexit done but 5 years of Tory rule and a lot of people would suffer during this time, not me personally, but people a lot less fortunate. The Labour party have always been a party of the people and I think it won't take long before this is realised and people who voted for Boris and his Brexit deal will regret their actions. I don't know why the media was so anti Corbyn, I did wonder if they were more afraid of his straight talking than anything else. I think it Labour had in place a decent likeable leader and had a consistent opinion on brexit then they would have had a very good chance of being in power already. I think the Conservatives can’t believe their luck as how things have turned out in recent years, it’s almost to the point were it appears Labour don’t actually want to win, and deliberately sabotage their own party to continue loosing.
That's it, I have had my say, its a very sad day but that's life and I am going back to not discussing politics or religion with friends as my father always advised me!!
I think you are very wrong there. The main issue was that people wanted the Brexit issue over and done with more than anything else. The thought even occurred to me that I should vote Tory just to have an end to all the indecision and lack of movement on any other issue owing to the overwhelming fog of Brexit. Thankfully I realised that voting in Boris wasn't just getting Brexit done but 5 years of Tory rule and a lot of people would suffer during this time, not me personally, but people a lot less fortunate. The Labour party have always been a party of the people and I think it won't take long before this is realised and people who voted for Boris and his Brexit deal will regret their actions. I don't know why the media was so anti Corbyn, I did wonder if they were more afraid of his straight talking than anything else. I think it Labour had in place a decent likeable leader and had a consistent opinion on brexit then they would have had a very good chance of being in power already. I think the Conservatives can’t believe their luck as how things have turned out in recent years, it’s almost to the point were it appears Labour don’t actually want to win, and deliberately sabotage their own party to continue loosing. How the media portray a person has a lot to do with how things went. The media demonised Corbyn who I think is probably a really decent human being. They say if you throw enough mud it will stick and I believe it to be the case here. There are far too many politicians there for themselves instead of the people they are supposed to be representing and the Brexit remainers in the party that left the party and then turned on it can be blamed for a lot of this. Its such a shame that it often takes years for the truth about these fabricated stories to be known by which time life has moved on and nobody apart from those individuals affected have any interest. To show my age, I remember them demonising Arthur Scargill the leader of the miners in those awful Thatcher years. It took an age for the truth to be known and prove it was all untrue but it did the job at the time. That's it, I have had my say, its a very sad day but that's life and I am going back to not discussing politics or religion with friends as my father always advised me!! |
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Election to be held on 12 December , by daylightrobber on Dec 13, 2019 12:51:34 GMT 1, I think you are very wrong there. The main issue was that people wanted the Brexit issue over and done with more than anything else. The thought even occurred to me that I should vote Tory just to have an end to all the indecision and lack of movement on any other issue owing to the overwhelming fog of Brexit. Thankfully I realised that voting in Boris wasn't just getting Brexit done but 5 years of Tory rule and a lot of people would suffer during this time, not me personally, but people a lot less fortunate. The Labour party have always been a party of the people and I think it won't take long before this is realised and people who voted for Boris and his Brexit deal will regret their actions. I don't know why the media was so anti Corbyn, I did wonder if they were more afraid of his straight talking than anything else. I think if Labour had in place a decent likeable leader and had a consistent opinion on brexit then they would have had a very good chance of being in power already. I think the Conservatives can’t believe their luck as how things have turned out in recent years, it’s almost to the point were it appears Labour don’t actually want to win, and deliberately sabotage their own party to continue loosing.
So Brexit is now entirely the Tory Party's (not that it wasn't already). It has already screwed the social fabric of the country. The job is now to deliver it without job losses, border issues, trade problems etc. The mood of the country can change extremely quickly.
I think you are very wrong there. The main issue was that people wanted the Brexit issue over and done with more than anything else. The thought even occurred to me that I should vote Tory just to have an end to all the indecision and lack of movement on any other issue owing to the overwhelming fog of Brexit. Thankfully I realised that voting in Boris wasn't just getting Brexit done but 5 years of Tory rule and a lot of people would suffer during this time, not me personally, but people a lot less fortunate. The Labour party have always been a party of the people and I think it won't take long before this is realised and people who voted for Boris and his Brexit deal will regret their actions. I don't know why the media was so anti Corbyn, I did wonder if they were more afraid of his straight talking than anything else. I think if Labour had in place a decent likeable leader and had a consistent opinion on brexit then they would have had a very good chance of being in power already. I think the Conservatives can’t believe their luck as how things have turned out in recent years, it’s almost to the point were it appears Labour don’t actually want to win, and deliberately sabotage their own party to continue loosing. What was the correct consistent opinion on Brexit? The correct thing to do practically is still to remain and reform. ALL assessments are that we will be less well off economically. Politically the correct thing seems to be to accept the result of the referendum and 'Get Brexit Done'. There is no balancing those 2 positions. So Brexit is now entirely the Tory Party's (not that it wasn't already). It has already screwed the social fabric of the country. The job is now to deliver it without job losses, border issues, trade problems etc. The mood of the country can change extremely quickly. |
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earthlinga2
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Posts: 777
Member Since: November 2019
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Election to be held on 12 December , by earthlinga2 on Dec 13, 2019 12:54:23 GMT 1, I think Labour had big opportunities in the last decade to gain power as the Conservative leaders have been pretty weak and unpopular, but now I think Boris will gain more and more followers from traditional Labour familes, much more than any conservative leaders in living memory. Labour need an absolute miracle now!
I think Labour had big opportunities in the last decade to gain power as the Conservative leaders have been pretty weak and unpopular, but now I think Boris will gain more and more followers from traditional Labour familes, much more than any conservative leaders in living memory. Labour need an absolute miracle now! I agree. Unless Labour change policies radically, they are finished as a political force. I'm not a Labour supporter but I still think it's rather sad. Corbyn and his fan base have decimated the Labour party. They need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror. |
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J0NNY
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Posts: 805
Member Since: December 2014
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Election to be held on 12 December , by J0NNY on Dec 13, 2019 13:04:27 GMT 1, Anyone who ever thought a party that had Corbyn and Abbott at the helm really needs to take a hard look at themselves. Brexit might suck but it’s obvious now more than ever that more people want it than don’t, so hopefully it can just be implemented now and we stop prolonging the situation. It’s got to the point now where the uncertainty of the situation is the main factor that is messing with our economy
Anyone who ever thought a party that had Corbyn and Abbott at the helm really needs to take a hard look at themselves. Brexit might suck but it’s obvious now more than ever that more people want it than don’t, so hopefully it can just be implemented now and we stop prolonging the situation. It’s got to the point now where the uncertainty of the situation is the main factor that is messing with our economy |
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tonys
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Posts: 282
Member Since: July 2012
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Election to be held on 12 December , by tonys on Dec 13, 2019 13:13:20 GMT 1, To be honest, after every defeat every party goes through that 'we're doomed' faze.
Elections are lost rather than won. People vote out governments rather than vote in a new party. Opposition parties need to sit tight and wait. It's a long game sadly, but something will come along that will unsettle the Tories and opposition parties have to pounce at the right moment.
Who would have thought the Tories would get in 2010, they were trailing in the polls until Brown screwed up on the 10p tax and then the crash? Up until then, it was 10 years of growth, massive investment in the NHS etc
Then shit happens and we descend into a decade of utter chaos.
To be honest, after every defeat every party goes through that 'we're doomed' faze.
Elections are lost rather than won. People vote out governments rather than vote in a new party. Opposition parties need to sit tight and wait. It's a long game sadly, but something will come along that will unsettle the Tories and opposition parties have to pounce at the right moment.
Who would have thought the Tories would get in 2010, they were trailing in the polls until Brown screwed up on the 10p tax and then the crash? Up until then, it was 10 years of growth, massive investment in the NHS etc
Then shit happens and we descend into a decade of utter chaos.
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NYart
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Posts: 1,150
Member Since: January 2016
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Election to be held on 12 December , by NYart on Dec 13, 2019 13:42:54 GMT 1, That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%.
If you were steadfastly against Brexit, wouldn’t you vote Labour instead of essentially throwing your vote away on a third party?
That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%. If you were steadfastly against Brexit, wouldn’t you vote Labour instead of essentially throwing your vote away on a third party? |
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love
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Posts: 1,622
Member Since: October 2009
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Election to be held on 12 December , by love on Dec 13, 2019 13:44:16 GMT 1, So there lies one - from the first day in office - lying to his country and his queen. He counteracts contradiction in his party by throwing the opponents upright. At every opportunity he mocks Parliament as a booby booth, he reveals ridicule to members of parliament who fear for their integrity. The media, as soon as unreasonable, he threatens with harsh consequences.
You do not have to be a social or Liberal Democrat to be shocked by the landslide that occurred in England. Because the real losers of this election are not the Labor party and the many voices of reason on all sides of the political spectrum. The real losers are decency, sincerity, and integrity.
But what do I know...
So there lies one - from the first day in office - lying to his country and his queen. He counteracts contradiction in his party by throwing the opponents upright. At every opportunity he mocks Parliament as a booby booth, he reveals ridicule to members of parliament who fear for their integrity. The media, as soon as unreasonable, he threatens with harsh consequences.
You do not have to be a social or Liberal Democrat to be shocked by the landslide that occurred in England. Because the real losers of this election are not the Labor party and the many voices of reason on all sides of the political spectrum. The real losers are decency, sincerity, and integrity.
But what do I know...
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nex
Member
Posts: 2,480
Member Since: February 2009
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Election to be held on 12 December , by nex on Dec 13, 2019 13:45:56 GMT 1, So there lies one - from the first day in office - lying to his country and his queen. He counteracts contradiction in his party by throwing the opponents upright. At every opportunity he mocks Parliament as a booby booth, he reveals ridicule to members of parliament who fear for their integrity. The media, as soon as unreasonable, he threatens with harsh consequences. You do not have to be a social or Liberal Democrat to be shocked by the landslide that occurred in England. Because the real losers of this election are not the Labor party and the many voices of reason on all sides of the political spectrum. The real losers are decency, sincerity, and integrity. But what do I know...
The real losers are the poor
So there lies one - from the first day in office - lying to his country and his queen. He counteracts contradiction in his party by throwing the opponents upright. At every opportunity he mocks Parliament as a booby booth, he reveals ridicule to members of parliament who fear for their integrity. The media, as soon as unreasonable, he threatens with harsh consequences. You do not have to be a social or Liberal Democrat to be shocked by the landslide that occurred in England. Because the real losers of this election are not the Labor party and the many voices of reason on all sides of the political spectrum. The real losers are decency, sincerity, and integrity. But what do I know... The real losers are the poor |
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Daniel Silk
The Founder
URBAN ART ASSOCIATION
Posts: 28,486
Location: Asia
Member Since: January 2006
Staff Member
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Election to be held on 12 December , by Daniel Silk on Dec 13, 2019 13:53:38 GMT 1, I think Labour had big opportunities in the last decade to gain power as the Conservative leaders have been pretty weak and unpopular, but now I think Boris will gain more and more followers from traditional Labour familes, much more than any conservative leaders in living memory. Labour need an absolute miracle now! I agree. Unless Labour change policies radically, they are finished as a political force. I'm not a Labour supporter but I still think it's rather sad. Corbyn and his fan base have decimated the Labour party. They need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.
I think Labour had big opportunities in the last decade to gain power as the Conservative leaders have been pretty weak and unpopular, but now I think Boris will gain more and more followers from traditional Labour familes, much more than any conservative leaders in living memory. Labour need an absolute miracle now! I agree. Unless Labour change policies radically, they are finished as a political force. I'm not a Labour supporter but I still think it's rather sad. Corbyn and his fan base have decimated the Labour party. They need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror. It’s sad also that all the other parties seem to be in a mess and don’t seem to have any chance of being a threat in opposition to the Conservatives. Interesting times ahead. |
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earthlinga2
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Posts: 777
Member Since: November 2019
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Election to be held on 12 December , by earthlinga2 on Dec 13, 2019 14:26:33 GMT 1, I'm no fan of Alan Johnson but I applaud his anger here. You can't have militant factions dominating mainstream left politics and not expect the result of last night. It was like Foot and Kinnock all over again. I'm all for revolution but you do that on the margins. In the party you suit up, bland down and try to appeal to the 100k of voters that are needed to shift in order to have the illusion of a landslide just like last night. This was the Tory party resetting and we won't unseat them with the purist failed politics of the past. I've had massive bust ups over the past few months with people because of this issue. If Corbyn really believed in the socialist cause he'd have stepped down. It was clear that he was the problem and yet the same ego and vanity the left always accuses the right of displaying, was there for all to see. Just like Kinnock before him, he ignored the evidence and led a purist defeat that has fucked the poor just as much as the Tories have done.
I'm no fan of Alan Johnson but I applaud his anger here. You can't have militant factions dominating mainstream left politics and not expect the result of last night. It was like Foot and Kinnock all over again. I'm all for revolution but you do that on the margins. In the party you suit up, bland down and try to appeal to the 100k of voters that are needed to shift in order to have the illusion of a landslide just like last night. This was the Tory party resetting and we won't unseat them with the purist failed politics of the past. I've had massive bust ups over the past few months with people because of this issue. If Corbyn really believed in the socialist cause he'd have stepped down. It was clear that he was the problem and yet the same ego and vanity the left always accuses the right of displaying, was there for all to see. Just like Kinnock before him, he ignored the evidence and led a purist defeat that has fucked the poor just as much as the Tories have done. This has been the worst Labour result since 1935! It's shocking that even now, Jeremy Corbyn hasn't resigned. Anyone who cares about Labour needs to face reality. Corbyn, MacDonnell, Abbott...they all need to go. |
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posterbob
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Posts: 4,832
Member Since: September 2013
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Election to be held on 12 December , by posterbob on Dec 13, 2019 14:53:20 GMT 1, No one threw their vote away in voting for the party that supports their beliefs. If Labour wanted my vote they could have had it with a staunchly pro-Remain platform, centrist-leaning, sound policies and without a racist, dictator-loving, naive fool at the helm.
That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%. If you were steadfastly against Brexit, wouldn’t you vote Labour instead of essentially throwing your vote away on a third party?
No one threw their vote away in voting for the party that supports their beliefs. If Labour wanted my vote they could have had it with a staunchly pro-Remain platform, centrist-leaning, sound policies and without a racist, dictator-loving, naive fool at the helm. That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%. If you were steadfastly against Brexit, wouldn’t you vote Labour instead of essentially throwing your vote away on a third party? |
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jingle
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Posts: 1,970
Member Since: November 2013
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Election to be held on 12 December , by jingle on Dec 13, 2019 15:01:35 GMT 1, and don't underestimate Labour and their subliminal messaging. They are very clever and good at that. Diane Abbott clearly subliminally telling people to vote left by wearing two left shoes today.  More desperate Tory lies... 
and don't underestimate Labour and their subliminal messaging. They are very clever and good at that. Diane Abbott clearly subliminally telling people to vote left by wearing two left shoes today. More desperate Tory lies... I heard they sent someone home to find her shoe for the new photo. Amazing! |
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vei
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Posts: 1,507
Member Since: February 2013
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Election to be held on 12 December , by vei on Dec 13, 2019 16:50:33 GMT 1, That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%.
Can you show us how you worked that out those figures please. I have no idea how you’d come up with that conclusion.
That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%. Can you show us how you worked that out those figures please. I have no idea how you’d come up with that conclusion. |
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Election to be held on 12 December , by daylightrobber on Dec 13, 2019 17:09:37 GMT 1, That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%. Can you show us how you worked that out those figures please. I have no idea how you’d come up with that conclusion.
I think what's being suggested is that 48% voted for Tories/Brexit party and 52% voted for others. Based on manifestos half the country would've been happy with a 2nd referendum.
As important, Scotland and NI confirmed that they are in favour of remaining and Johnson will now need to navigate Brexit whilst fending off Indyref2 in Scotland and calls for reunification in Ireland.
That isn’t true. Dissecting the total votes cast yesterday based on leave/remain party stance actually brings up roughly the same ratio as the 2016 referendum, 52% to 48%. Can you show us how you worked that out those figures please. I have no idea how you’d come up with that conclusion. I think what's being suggested is that 48% voted for Tories/Brexit party and 52% voted for others. Based on manifestos half the country would've been happy with a 2nd referendum. As important, Scotland and NI confirmed that they are in favour of remaining and Johnson will now need to navigate Brexit whilst fending off Indyref2 in Scotland and calls for reunification in Ireland. |
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vei
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Posts: 1,507
Member Since: February 2013
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Election to be held on 12 December , by vei on Dec 13, 2019 17:19:35 GMT 1, Thanks, I read that then as the statement is supported by an assumption. It may be right but there is nothing to support the assumption.
Thanks, I read that then as the statement is supported by an assumption. It may be right but there is nothing to support the assumption.
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qest
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Member Since: March 2018
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Election to be held on 12 December , by qest on Dec 13, 2019 17:20:42 GMT 1, You can't have militant factions dominating mainstream left politics and not expect the result of last night. It was like Foot and Kinnock all over again. I'm all for revolution but you do that on the margins. In the party you suit up, bland down and try to appeal to the 100k of voters that are needed to shift in order to have the illusion of a landslide just like last night.
This is a solid point and one that I fear will also bite us Americans come November.
You can't have militant factions dominating mainstream left politics and not expect the result of last night. It was like Foot and Kinnock all over again. I'm all for revolution but you do that on the margins. In the party you suit up, bland down and try to appeal to the 100k of voters that are needed to shift in order to have the illusion of a landslide just like last night. This is a solid point and one that I fear will also bite us Americans come November. |
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nex
Member
Posts: 2,480
Member Since: February 2009
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Election to be held on 12 December , by nex on Dec 13, 2019 17:21:02 GMT 1, More desperate Tory lies... I heard they sent someone home to find her shoe for the new photo. Amazing!
This place once again excelling itself 🤦♂️
More desperate Tory lies... I heard they sent someone home to find her shoe for the new photo. Amazing! This place once again excelling itself 🤦♂️ |
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moron
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Posts: 2,469
Member Since: September 2017
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Election to be held on 12 December , by moron on Dec 17, 2019 17:04:38 GMT 1, Corbyn and McDonnell lost a lot of very good Labour MP's their seats.
When he was a back bencher, Corbyn had the luxury of supporting commies and terrorists. He was ignored by the general public as just a lefty loon. As a potential Prime Minister, all that came back to hang over him like a dark cloud.
Corbyn and McDonnell lost a lot of very good Labour MP's their seats.
When he was a back bencher, Corbyn had the luxury of supporting commies and terrorists. He was ignored by the general public as just a lefty loon. As a potential Prime Minister, all that came back to hang over him like a dark cloud.
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skAcid
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Hangin'
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Member Since: October 2017
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Election to be held on 12 December , by skAcid on Dec 18, 2019 12:15:07 GMT 1,
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earthlinga2
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Posts: 777
Member Since: November 2019
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Election to be held on 12 December , by earthlinga2 on Apr 4, 2020 17:49:41 GMT 1, Keir Starmer seems like a good guy. I'm sure he has the potential to be a future PM. I just hope he doesn't allow the Momentum thugs to bully Labour in to remaining in the Corbyn-loving wilderness for another 5 years.
Keir Starmer seems like a good guy. I'm sure he has the potential to be a future PM. I just hope he doesn't allow the Momentum thugs to bully Labour in to remaining in the Corbyn-loving wilderness for another 5 years.
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