[daylightrobber]

And so that we don't all fall into the trap of the distraction from the real story............

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/10/thousands-of-patients-die-waiting-for-beds-in-hospitals-study?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1575960327

[Guy Denning]

and... for any self-flagellating wannabe, gonna be, a millionaire one day Rodneys out there

[dirtypete]

“I am no fan of the Conservatives” This is a phrase I’m hearing a lot during this election, but is caused by the shambolic way that Labour have conducted themselves of late.

Both main parties have used Brexit as an excuse to drive policy away from the centre ground, which in the long run will lead to greater division and issues.

Corbyn is a great campaigner but has been woeful in countering the tories.

Most people despise the tories but hate Corbyn more. We live in strange times.

Both main parties deserve a kicking.

[daylightrobber]

Dec 10, 2019 13:10:45 GMT 1 dirtypete said:

“I am no fan of the Conservatives” This is a phrase I’m hearing a lot during this election, but is caused by the shambolic way that Labour have conducted themselves of late.

Both main parties have used Brexit as an excuse to drive policy away from the centre ground, which in the long run will lead to greater division and issues.

Corbyn is a great campaigner but has been woeful in countering the tories.

Most people despise the tories but hate Corbyn more. We live in strange times.

Both main parties deserve a kicking.

I'm no fan of the Conservatives because this..........

Nothing to do with the way anyone other than the Conservatives have conducted themselves.

[Guy Denning]

Dec 10, 2019 12:33:21 GMT 1 Carl Cashman said:

Bot wars

and more...









Looks like Johnson's found all his new nurses.

[posterbob]

Dec 10, 2019 12:19:08 GMT 1 Bren said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:30:06 GMT 1 posterbob said:

I am no fan of the Conservatives, but they are not being investigated by the EHRC for denying party entry based on religion and insisting on searching Jewish people's homes. The sooner Labour admits that they are rabid anti-Semites and remove  their extremists the sooner they can deal with it and move on. 

Will be good to have the investigations concluded

I wasnt aware the Labour party insist on searching Jewish people's homes. Do you have links or facts?

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/05/seventy-labour-staffers-give-statements-to-antisemitism-inquiry

I'm sure the Marxists will just retort that it is the same level of Anti-Semitism as seen in the general population and ignore that no mainstream party should tolerate a racist element, look at it as isolated incidents and ignore the sheer number of them, or say that The Guardian is not a reputable news source as it doesn't publish garbage, emotional clickbait like The Independent and The New Statesman. 

[earthlinga2]

Dec 10, 2019 13:10:45 GMT 1 dirtypete said:

“I am no fan of the Conservatives” This is a phrase I’m hearing a lot during this election, but is caused by the shambolic way that Labour have conducted themselves of late.

Both main parties have used Brexit as an excuse to drive policy away from the centre ground, which in the long run will lead to greater division and issues.

Corbyn is a great campaigner but has been woeful in countering the tories.

Most people despise the tories but hate Corbyn more. We live in strange times.

Both main parties deserve a kicking.

I agree completely.  I despise Boris.  But, equally, I can't stand Jeremy Corbyn either.  I don't want either of them running the country.   
I have fairly centrist run-of-the mill views politically speaking and there is not one political party that I feel represents my views.  I'm completely disenfranchised.   

[daylightrobber]

Dec 10, 2019 13:39:52 GMT 1 posterbob said:

Dec 10, 2019 12:19:08 GMT 1 Bren said:

Will be good to have the investigations concluded

I wasnt aware the Labour party insist on searching Jewish people's homes. Do you have links or facts?

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/05/seventy-labour-staffers-give-statements-to-antisemitism-inquiry

I'm sure the Marxists will just retort that it is the same level of Anti-Semitism as seen in the general population and ignore that no mainstream party should tolerate a racist element, look at it as isolated incidents and ignore the sheer number of them, or say that The Guardian is not a reputable news source as it doesn't publish garbage, emotional clickbait like The Independent and The New Statesman. 

So no then.

Allegations. The way our society works is that the allegations get investigated before passing judgement and acting appropriately. If you're prepared to judge before then, you are pre-judging, you are prejudiced.

I would expect that some of the allegations will be true. Others not. AS exists. Bigotry exists. Prejudice exists. It needs to be eradicated.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2019 13:39:52 GMT 1 posterbob said:

Dec 10, 2019 12:19:08 GMT 1 Bren said:

Will be good to have the investigations concluded

I wasnt aware the Labour party insist on searching Jewish people's homes. Do you have links or facts?

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/05/seventy-labour-staffers-give-statements-to-antisemitism-inquiry

I'm sure the Marxists will just retort that it is the same level of Anti-Semitism as seen in the general population and ignore that no mainstream party should tolerate a racist element, look at it as isolated incidents and ignore the sheer number of them, or say that The Guardian is not a reputable news source as it doesn't publish garbage, emotional clickbait like The Independent and The New Statesman. 

Like I said I await the report as facts are important

You omitted to link or say where Labour insist on inspecting Jewish homes which was one of your points

[dappy]

... will Corbyn resign as being leader of the Labour party when he again fails to win a General Election and a majority in Parliament?

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2019 13:51:21 GMT 1 earthlinga2 said:

Dec 10, 2019 13:10:45 GMT 1 dirtypete said:

“I am no fan of the Conservatives” This is a phrase I’m hearing a lot during this election, but is caused by the shambolic way that Labour have conducted themselves of late.

Both main parties have used Brexit as an excuse to drive policy away from the centre ground, which in the long run will lead to greater division and issues.

Corbyn is a great campaigner but has been woeful in countering the tories.

Most people despise the tories but hate Corbyn more. We live in strange times.

Both main parties deserve a kicking.

I agree completely.  I despise Boris.  But, equally, I can't stand Jeremy Corbyn either.  I don't want either of them running the country.   
I have fairy centrist run-of-the mill views politically speaking and there is not one political party that I feel represents my views.  I'm completely disenfranchised.   

I kind of agree

I am have come to the conclusion that it's more a Brexit vote. Conservatives and we get a crap Brexit deal where even the Brexiters must be pissed that we will still remain in the ECJ and that lower and middle earners will be worse off...... Or a chance of another referendum via Labour

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2019 13:55:02 GMT 1 dappy said:

... will Corbyn resign as being leader of the Labour party when he again fails to win a General Election and a majority in Parliament?

Who would replace him?

And maybe change the when to if 😘

[posterbob]

Dec 10, 2019 13:52:19 GMT 1 Bren said:

Dec 10, 2019 13:39:52 GMT 1 posterbob said:

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/05/seventy-labour-staffers-give-statements-to-antisemitism-inquiry

I'm sure the Marxists will just retort that it is the same level of Anti-Semitism as seen in the general population and ignore that no mainstream party should tolerate a racist element, look at it as isolated incidents and ignore the sheer number of them, or say that The Guardian is not a reputable news source as it doesn't publish garbage, emotional clickbait like The Independent and The New Statesman. 

Like I said I await the report as facts are important

You omitted to link or say where Labour insist on inspecting Jewish homes which was one of your points

Did you read the article?

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2019 13:59:42 GMT 1 posterbob said:

Dec 10, 2019 13:52:19 GMT 1 Bren said:

Like I said I await the report as facts are important

You omitted to link or say where Labour insist on inspecting Jewish homes which was one of your points

Did you read the article?

Yes

Skimmed it first time and didnt see it apologies

You mean this

One respondent reported that the membership secretary in South Tottenham, north London, objected to 25 applications for membership from the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, and required home visits to these prospective members’ houses.

Doesnt make comfortable reading.

I cant and wont defend it.

I dont know how above would be proved or disproved?

[daylightrobber]

Well this is an interesting development.

[earthlinga2]

Dec 10, 2019 19:13:39 GMT 1 daylightrobber said:

Well this is an interesting development.

I have to admit I am rather concerned that this woman has chosen to publicise the contact details of this non-nurse.  No doubt she will now get hundreds, if not thousands, of hate mail messages in her inbox - and possibly even death threats.  
We live in an angry world. :-( 

[dappy]

... don't believe the hype ...

BBC News - General election 2019: The misinformation war over the boy in the hospital
www.bbc.co.uk/news/50728920

[coach]

Dec 10, 2019 13:33:02 GMT 1 Guy Denning said:

Dec 10, 2019 12:33:21 GMT 1 Carl Cashman said:

Bot wars

and more...









Looks like Johnson's found all his new nurses.

Jesus, I’m so sick of these dirty tricks.
Fake news has become a scourge.
That falsehoods are propagated in this way is appalling.
And the knock on effect is that truths can be dismissed as fake without proper analysis or debate.
The world has gone mad!

[daylightrobber]

Dec 10, 2019 20:08:01 GMT 1 earthlinga2 said:

Dec 10, 2019 19:13:39 GMT 1 daylightrobber said:

Well this is an interesting development.

I have to admit I am rather concerned that this woman has chosen to publicise the contact details of this non-nurse.  No doubt she will now get hundreds, if not thousands, of hate mail messages in her inbox - and possibly even death threats.  
We live in an angry world. :-( 

Interesting angle to go with when you consider that
she plastered herself all over Facebook spreading lies and misinformation. And that she has since been linked to the Health Secretary.

I mean yeah, we do live in an angry world. We also live in a world where the elite will do whatever it takes to retain power.

[daylightrobber]

Dec 10, 2019 21:08:22 GMT 1 warchet said:

When the 1st item on the list is bullshit. Hahahaha. Created by the coalition government.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2019 21:08:22 GMT 1 warchet said:

Boris wrote this didn't he

[dirtypete]

I guess we are heading into a new extreme form of politics, where the middle ground compromise doesn’t exist. I always thought that two terms of centre right (to make the money) followed by two terms of centre left (to spend the money) was quite an efficient system. Once you get to a third term the wheels fall off, New Labour and Thatcher for examples.

Rather than having rational discussions about complex issues, everything gets boiled down to extremes and single points. 

No one has the time to study all of the interconnecting parts so we use opinion pieces and sound bites to try and make some sense of the issues that matter to us. The modern problem though is that the internet makes misinformation and conflict too easy. 

The centre ground is unlikely to be regained anytime soon, which means we’re heading into new political waters for better or probably worst. 

[dirtypete]

Dec 10, 2019 23:00:23 GMT 1 god’s ultimate noise said:

Dec 9, 2019 23:41:02 GMT 1 warchet said:

Truth hurts 

You must be in a world of pain.

88% of Conservatives’ recent paid-for Facebook adverts have been independently found to feature claims which are either outright or partial lies.

Labour? 0%

Both main parties are spreading rubbish. Quoting nonsensical percentages doesn’t fix the NHS, why don’t you argue the policies instead?

If anyone is even on Facebook to receive directed adverts then they need to utilise their time better!

[Guy Denning]

And two of the main stories tied up...

1. A concerned mother shares a photo of her 4-year-old boy who was forced to wait hours on a hospital floor with suspected pneumonia.

2. The photo circulates online so a journalist challenges Boris Johnson about it during an interview by showing him the picture of the boy on his phone.

3. Johnson repeatedly refuses to even look at the boy, let alone acknowledge responsibility for the situation, and eventually steals the journalists phone and puts it in his pocket.

4. There is uproar about Johnson's lack of compassion so Health Minister, Matt Hancock, is dispatched to the hospital to deal with the situation.

5. Matt Hancock briefs journalists that, while at the hospital, one of his advisors was "punched" by a Labour activist.

6. Much of the media unquestioningly report the "punch" by the "Labour activist" as fact without checking the validity of the allegation. Widespread rage about "violent Labour activists" spreads like wildfire online.

7. Video footage then emerges online showing that the story had been entirely fabricated and was 100% false.

8. The media sheepishly backtrack on what they have posted out to the world.

9. A Facebook post then appears claiming to be from a "good friend" of a nurse working in Leeds hospital. The post says that the photograph of the 4-year-old was faked by a "Labour activist". The post is shared more than 30,000 times.

10. The claim is unquestioning reported as fact by much of the media without checking its validity.

11. Suspicions of the validity of the claim are then raised as it is discovered there are literally thousands and thousands of Facebook and Twitter accounts posting exactly the same claim, word for word.

12. It becomes clear that bots are being used to spread disinformation. The hospital also confirms the accuracy of the photo and that it had already apologised to the mother.

13. The media sheepishly backtrack on what they have posted out to the world.

14. The account where the post originated then comes into question. It belongs to a (real) woman named Sheree Jenner-Hepburn who claims her account has "hacked".

15. Further investigation shows that Sheree Jenner-Hepburn was not the innocent victim of a hack, but that the post was made from her account intentionally, as she responded to her friend's comments on the post.

16. It's then discovered that Sheree Jenner-Hepburn's son has a Facebook friend with a very prominent role within this story which may cast light on the motives behind the fake post.

17. It's… Matt Hancock's account!!!

In summary: it appears that the actual Health Minister of the British Government has not only fabricated a "punch" to deflect the heat from his boss, but, after being found out the first time, he *may* have used his friend's Facebook account to circulate another entirely fabricated story to try and smear his political opponents.



Credit Jon Maiden for the excellent text

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2019 23:39:04 GMT 1 Guy Denning said:

And two of the main stories tied up...

1. A concerned mother shares a photo of her 4-year-old boy who was forced to wait hours on a hospital floor with suspected pneumonia.

2. The photo circulates online so a journalist challenges Boris Johnson about it during an interview by showing him the picture of the boy on his phone.

3. Johnson repeatedly refuses to even look at the boy, let alone acknowledge responsibility for the situation, and eventually steals the journalists phone and puts it in his pocket.

4. There is uproar about Johnson's lack of compassion so Health Minister, Matt Hancock, is dispatched to the hospital to deal with the situation.

5. Matt Hancock briefs journalists that, while at the hospital, one of his advisors was "punched" by a Labour activist.

6. Much of the media unquestioningly report the "punch" by the "Labour activist" as fact without checking the validity of the allegation. Widespread rage about "violent Labour activists" spreads like wildfire online.

7. Video footage then emerges online showing that the story had been entirely fabricated and was 100% false.

8. The media sheepishly backtrack on what they have posted out to the world.

9. A Facebook post then appears claiming to be from a "good friend" of a nurse working in Leeds hospital. The post says that the photograph of the 4-year-old was faked by a "Labour activist". The post is shared more than 30,000 times.

10. The claim is unquestioning reported as fact by much of the media without checking its validity.

11. Suspicions of the validity of the claim are then raised as it is discovered there are literally thousands and thousands of Facebook and Twitter accounts posting exactly the same claim, word for word.

12. It becomes clear that bots are being used to spread disinformation. The hospital also confirms the accuracy of the photo and that it had already apologised to the mother.

13. The media sheepishly backtrack on what they have posted out to the world.

14. The account where the post originated then comes into question. It belongs to a (real) woman named Sheree Jenner-Hepburn who claims her account has "hacked".

15. Further investigation shows that Sheree Jenner-Hepburn was not the innocent victim of a hack, but that the post was made from her account intentionally, as she responded to her friend's comments on the post.

16. It's then discovered that Sheree Jenner-Hepburn's son has a Facebook friend with a very prominent role within this story which may cast light on the motives behind the fake post.

17. It's… Matt Hancock's account!!!

In summary: it appears that the actual Health Minister of the British Government has not only fabricated a "punch" to deflect the heat from his boss, but, after being found out the first time, he *may* have used his friend's Facebook account to circulate another entirely fabricated story to try and smear his political opponents.



Credit Jon Maiden for the excellent text

But it won't matter

Tory voters don't give a fuck. They like being lied to. They even vote for lies, spread lies, believe lies. Strange, very strange

[dirtypete]

Because Labour aren’t involved in other tricks.They’re all at it, although some worst than others if your stats are true.

I note you dodged the main point of my post, which was looking to see whether you wanted a more positive chat about NHS policies. The last time I tried quoting percentages it didn’t help me get a GP appointment.

Until you provide a source then I’ll have to take your word that they are indeed facts. I’m sure I could find counter statistic (“facts”) about Labour lying on campaign material, but it’s hardly ground breaker to show that dirty tactics are being used.

Everyone knows that Boris is ethically and morally bankrupt. Sadly Corbyn cant seem to capitalise on this point for some unknown reason.

[dirtypete]

Manty do you really feel all Tory voters don’t give a F*** and like being lied to? Hyperbole?

[sicklypete]

Dec 10, 2019 23:59:08 GMT 1 dirtypete said:

Manty do you really feel all Tory voters don’t give a F*** and like being lied to? Hyperbole?

Dec 11, 2019 0:44:38 GMT 1 warchet said:

I'm already over it its about as important to me as the twix I just ate.   It wont be the first time I've been lied to and certainly wont be the last.     

Certainly not *all* Tory voters, but this is a lovely example.

[astbury]

Dec 9, 2019 23:59:48 GMT 1 warchet said:

Dec 9, 2019 23:54:34 GMT 1 Bren said:

i always believe people when they start with 'my friend said' . It's always a truthful thing they say

Or so my friend told me

Its copied from a genuine nurses profile on facebook  and will probably be on tomorrows news after whats going on there right now   #labourscum

Same as a bot beat you to a print release warchet you were fooled by this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 grade a ....

[earthlinga2]

Dec 10, 2019 23:24:55 GMT 1 god’s ultimate noise said:

Dec 10, 2019 23:14:48 GMT 1 dirtypete said:

Both main parties are spreading rubbish. Quoting nonsensical percentages doesn’t fix the NHS, why don’t you argue the policies instead?

If anyone is even on Facebook to receive directed adverts then they need to utilise their time better!

“Nonsensical percentages”?!
Aka “facts”?
Lol.

Corbyn lies as well as Boris.  Take this 500 million figure that Corbyn loves to spout all the time regarding the U.S. trade deal and the NHS drugs bill.  It's complete nonsense.  What he has done is taken the total NHS drug budget and applied the U.S. drug costs to it.  But we only get about 9% of our drugs from the U.S. and 90% from the EU.  In other words the budget increase would be about one tenth of what Corbyn says.  A deal with the U.S. will not impact the price of drugs from the EU.  It's a blatant lie by Corbyn and he knows it.  
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50295231