[Adam The Collector]

Dying for a large format "These Sunsets are to Die For"

[Stonetown]

Jul 19, 2019 3:24:47 GMT 1 Con Art Studio said:

Jul 19, 2019 2:08:30 GMT 1 Wisconinla said:

Yes, I don’t really get it either. Why release the same images but larger?

these releases are part of his 30th anniversary. He’s releasing 30 large format prints. The HPMs are an edition of 19 each and these are an edition of 89 each (1989 is when obey started). The large format prints are considered fine art prints, the standard 18x24” prints are not.

Do these actually sell out? Or does he just end the sale when he releases his next one?

[19818914]

These should be half the price he is charging. Since his prints aren’t collectible anymore he should make them all open edition and lower the prices by a lot.

[Stonetown]

Aug 7, 2019 3:17:05 GMT 1 19818914 said:

These should be half the price he is charging. Since his prints aren’t collectible anymore he should make them all open edition and lower the prices by a lot.

I wonder if the store actually ever sticks to their 'no flipping on ebay' policy. It'd be an interesting test.

[Express Post]

Hard to police since sellers use proxies.
However they do enforce the one per household effectively.

Aug 7, 2019 4:34:19 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

Aug 7, 2019 3:17:05 GMT 1 19818914 said:

These should be half the price he is charging. Since his prints aren’t collectible anymore he should make them all open edition and lower the prices by a lot.

I wonder if the store actually ever sticks to their 'no flipping on ebay' policy. It'd be an interesting test.

[Stonetown]

I do like his work. Im just starting out in buying UA and could use some advice. Will these prints hold their value at least or are they like buying a car Where as soon as you drive it away, it's worth less.
Thanks

[Happy Shopper]

Aug 7, 2019 12:27:35 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

I do like his work. Im just starting out in buying UA and could use some advice. Will these prints hold their value at least or are they like buying a car Where as soon as you drive it away, it's worth less.
Thanks

At $900, and so many of them, they're not going to go up in price much.
The best ones should hold their value, but I'm surprised "Proud Parents" is still available. I'd have thought that one would have gone crazy fast !!

[seqret]

Aug 7, 2019 12:27:35 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

I do like his work. Im just starting out in buying UA and could use some advice. Will these prints hold their value at least or are they like buying a car Where as soon as you drive it away, it's worth less.
Thanks

Buy the ones you really like. Thick paper, great quality, large format, low edition. Will look great on the wall. Most of them will hold their value imo.

I just received one and very happy with it

[19818914]

Aug 7, 2019 12:27:35 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

I do like his work. Im just starting out in buying UA and could use some advice. Will these prints hold their value at least or are they like buying a car Where as soon as you drive it away, it's worth less.
Thanks

I’d say stay away from his large formats. They are expensive to frame and difficult to sell when you need the wall space. If you like Shepard, try and wait for one of his 18x24 inch drops and be sure to have all your information- credit card , address, (pre) filled in your browser and be quick to the draw.

When I first came into the cash to collect, I bought 2 large formats and they took up a lot of wall space. I ended up selling one and hiding the other behind the couch. The 18x 24 fit in a standard frame and will be easy to store once and if your taste changes.

This is the start of your journey into collecting. Start cheap, start small, be patient.

[Stonetown]

Aug 7, 2019 20:09:51 GMT 1 19818914 said:

Aug 7, 2019 12:27:35 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

I do like his work. Im just starting out in buying UA and could use some advice. Will these prints hold their value at least or are they like buying a car Where as soon as you drive it away, it's worth less.
Thanks

I’d say stay away from his large formats. They are expensive to frame and difficult to sell when you need the wall space. If you like Shepard, try and wait for one of his 18x24 inch drops and be sure to have all your information- credit card , address, (pre) filled in your browser and be quick to the draw.

When I first came into the cash to collect, I bought 2 large formats and they took up a lot of wall space. I ended up selling one and hiding the other behind the couch. The 18x 24 fit in a standard frame and will be easy to store once and if your taste changes.

This is the start of your journey into collecting. Start cheap, start small, be patient.

Thanks for the advice. I liked the PROUD PARENTS a lot though so I splurged regardless.
 A fool and his money are easily parted

[19818914]

Aug 8, 2019 4:55:25 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

Aug 7, 2019 20:09:51 GMT 1 19818914 said:

I’d say stay away from his large formats. They are expensive to frame and difficult to sell when you need the wall space. If you like Shepard, try and wait for one of his 18x24 inch drops and be sure to have all your information- credit card , address, (pre) filled in your browser and be quick to the draw.

When I first came into the cash to collect, I bought 2 large formats and they took up a lot of wall space. I ended up selling one and hiding the other behind the couch. The 18x 24 fit in a standard frame and will be easy to store once and if your taste changes.

This is the start of your journey into collecting. Start cheap, start small, be patient.

Thanks for the advice. I liked the PROUD PARENTS a lot though so I splurged regardless.
 A fool and his money are easily parted

It's all good. Enjoy that.

[Stonetown]

I have always liked Fairey's work. Never bought one til now. I collect other kinds of fine art and a good rule of thumb has always been the larger art the better and the smaller the run, the better. I would think that would apply for these larger prints but it seems like there is more of an affinity for his smaller sizes in much larger runs. Does that rule of thumb not apply here? Any guidance is appreciated.

[Express Post]

Keep buying, framing and hanging LFs, and you will find out quickly how much of a pain in the buttocks they are to own.
The smaller formats are practical.

If the art ticks your boxes, then buy what you like. You will find that the market for LFs are illiquid.

Aug 10, 2019 3:00:39 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

I have always liked Fairey's work. Never bought one til now. I collect other kinds of fine art and a good rule of thumb has always been the larger art the better and the smaller the run, the better. I would think that would apply for these larger prints but it seems like there is more of an affinity for his smaller sizes in much larger runs. Does that rule of thumb not apply here? Any guidance is appreciated.

[Stonetown]

Aug 10, 2019 4:57:17 GMT 1 Express Post said:

Keep buying, framing and hanging LFs, and you will find out quickly how much of a pain in the buttocks they are to own.
The smaller formats are practical.

If the art ticks your boxes, then buy what you like. You will find that the market for LFs are illiquid.

Aug 10, 2019 3:00:39 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

I have always liked Fairey's work. Never bought one til now. I collect other kinds of fine art and a good rule of thumb has always been the larger art the better and the smaller the run, the better. I would think that would apply for these larger prints but it seems like there is more of an affinity for his smaller sizes in much larger runs. Does that rule of thumb not apply here? Any guidance is appreciated.

So mostly it's just that they are more awkward to frame and hang?

[19818914]

Aug 10, 2019 12:49:44 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

Aug 10, 2019 4:57:17 GMT 1 Express Post said:

Keep buying, framing and hanging LFs, and you will find out quickly how much of a pain in the buttocks they are to own.
The smaller formats are practical.

If the art ticks your boxes, then buy what you like. You will find that the market for LFs are illiquid.

So mostly it's just that they are more awkward to frame and hang?

You’re going to enjoy the print. It will be high quality on nice paper. But as you collect you’ll find that wall space is something valuable. And so starting a collection with smaller prints or originals is more forgiving. Your tastes will change, your walls will fill. This is only the start.

[Express Post]

Yes. If you still can't live without the image, then by all means go ahead.
It is only because you mentioned value I thought I'd raise that LFs values are not significant enough to justify investing in framing and hanging them.

Aug 10, 2019 12:49:44 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

Aug 10, 2019 4:57:17 GMT 1 Express Post said:

Keep buying, framing and hanging LFs, and you will find out quickly how much of a pain in the buttocks they are to own.
The smaller formats are practical.

If the art ticks your boxes, then buy what you like. You will find that the market for LFs are illiquid.

So mostly it's just that they are more awkward to frame and hang?

[cafebrazil]

Aug 10, 2019 20:24:40 GMT 1 Express Post said:

Yes. If you still can't live without the image, then by all means go ahead.
It is only because you mentioned value I thought I'd raise that LFs values are not significant enough to justify investing in framing and hanging them.

Aug 10, 2019 12:49:44 GMT 1 Stonetown said:

So mostly it's just that they are more awkward to frame and hang?

THE DISCUSSION SO FAR...

The arguments that Fairey Large Format prints don't rise so much in value (at least in the short term of a few years) and that as larger prints they take up a lot of space and are harder to manage than the standard 18x24 inch Fairey's are very salient points. My two cents follows.

18X24 IS THE BEST RETAIL INVESTMENT

If you look at how much 18x24 print prices go up relative to their retail value, the smaller prints have a higher multiplier. The average 18x24 costs around $60 retail and resells for around $200 on average; therefore typically has a 3x or more markup. However, this is because Fairey sells 18x24 prints for under their market value, hence instant selling out and flipping. The large format prints (that are not grails) on the high end might double in value after about 5 to 10 years, but typically the multiplier is far less than for 18x24 prints purchased at retail price.

THE LARGE FORMAT AT RETAIL CAN BEAT AN 18X24 (from the secondary market)

On the other hand, if you are unable to get the 18x24 you love at retail, you generally lose the short term 3x multiplier benefit. So for example, a popular print such as Natural Springs or Fan the Flames would have cost you $200-$300 early on in the secondary market. In such a case any significant value increase would probably take five plus years to realize. So the question is, does a secondary market 18x24 typically have a greater increase in value than a $900 retail value large format print? I'm sure that answer is largely contingent upon the print in question.

Another way to put the previous paragraph: Would you rather pay $500+ on the secondary market for a 18x24 Peace Mujer or $900 retail for the huge fine art version of Peace Mujer? $475+ for an 18x24 Delicate Balance or $900 for the huge fine art version?

LARGE FORMATS ARE MORE RARE than 18x24s

Large formats blow away 18x24 prints with respect to rarity. I'm not going to do a proper count here, but roughly speaking a current 18x24 print has an average run of 500 prints. Multiply that 500 times 600 18x24 editions as a crude estimate* and you get around 300,000 18x24 Fairey prints in circulation. There are FAR fewer large format editions. Let's assume 100 large format editions at about 89 prints per edition, you get 100x89 or 8900 large format Fairey prints in circulation. The large formats are probably 30 times or more rarer. The head-to-head value of say a 18x24 versus a large format Delicate Balance would probably be in favor of the large format at three times the value or more of the 18x24--in the short term. In the long term, the significantly rarer large format prints should be far, far more.

18x24s good--Large Formats better

In the short term and for space purposes, an 18x24 is probably the better "investment". However, in the true long term, such as 20 years, the large format is highly likely to be the better "investment" assuming all factors (e.g. design/condition) are equal.

The best buy depends on (at least) three factors:

1) What you want

2) Your budget

3) What you intend to do with the print in the future

End

*Someone can feel free to do an accurate count using the Giant Org wiki:

thegiant.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Pieces_by_year

[Stonetown]

brazil...
thank you for taking so much time to put up that reply. Great insight!
Standing applause!

[19818914]

I disagree

[Stonetown]

Aug 13, 2019 22:10:30 GMT 1 19818914 said:

I disagree

You make a good point

[cest]

Aug 13, 2019 4:32:29 GMT 1 cafebrazil said:

Aug 10, 2019 20:24:40 GMT 1 Express Post said:

Yes. If you still can't live without the image, then by all means go ahead.
It is only because you mentioned value I thought I'd raise that LFs values are not significant enough to justify investing in framing and hanging them.

THE DISCUSSION SO FAR...

The arguments that Fairey Large Format prints don't rise so much in value (at least in the short term of a few years) and that as larger prints they take up a lot of space and are harder to manage than the standard 18x24 inch Fairey's are very salient points. My two cents follows.

18X24 IS THE BEST RETAIL INVESTMENT

If you look at how much 18x24 print prices go up relative to their retail value, the smaller prints have a higher multiplier. The average 18x24 costs around $60 retail and resells for around $200 on average; therefore typically has a 3x or more markup. However, this is because Fairey sells 18x24 prints for under their market value, hence instant selling out and flipping. The large format prints (that are not grails) on the high end might double in value after about 5 to 10 years, but typically the multiplier is far less than for 18x24 prints purchased at retail price.

THE LARGE FORMAT AT RETAIL CAN BEAT AN 18X24 (from the secondary market)

On the other hand, if you are unable to get the 18x24 you love at retail, you generally lose the short term 3x multiplier benefit. So for example, a popular print such as Natural Springs or Fan the Flames would have cost you $200-$300 early on in the secondary market. In such a case any significant value increase would probably take five plus years to realize. So the question is, does a secondary market 18x24 typically have a greater increase in value than a $900 retail value large format print? I'm sure that answer is largely contingent upon the print in question.

Another way to put the previous paragraph: Would you rather pay $500+ on the secondary market for a 18x24 Peace Mujer or $900 retail for the huge fine art version of Peace Mujer? $475+ for an 18x24 Delicate Balance or $900 for the huge fine art version?

LARGE FORMATS ARE MORE RARE than 18x24s

Large formats blow away 18x24 prints with respect to rarity. I'm not going to do a proper count here, but roughly speaking a current 18x24 print has an average run of 500 prints. Multiply that 500 times 600 18x24 editions as a crude estimate* and you get around 300,000 18x24 Fairey prints in circulation. There are FAR fewer large format editions. Let's assume 100 large format editions at about 89 prints per edition, you get 100x89 or 8900 large format Fairey prints in circulation. The large formats are probably 30 times or more rarer. The head-to-head value of say a 18x24 versus a large format Delicate Balance would probably be in favor of the large format at three times the value or more of the 18x24--in the short term. In the long term, the significantly rarer large format prints should be far, far more.

18x24s good--Large Formats better

In the short term and for space purposes, an 18x24 is probably the better "investment". However, in the true long term, such as 20 years, the large format is highly likely to be the better "investment" assuming all factors (e.g. design/condition) are equal.

The best buy depends on (at least) three factors:

1) What you want

2) Your budget

3) What you intend to do with the print in the future

End

*Someone can feel free to do an accurate count using the Giant Org wiki:

thegiant.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Pieces_by_year

Im not building another wall for just large format sf prints

[anodyne13]

I love that the large formats aren’t any good for flippers and “investment”.

[Express Post]

Nowadays for a sf print to soar in value, it needs to be hung in a president's office. Then all the limited editions with the same image will be worth a motza.

[The Observer]

Aug 7, 2019 3:17:05 GMT 1 19818914 said:

These should be half the price he is charging. Since his prints aren’t collectible anymore he should make them all open edition and lower the prices by a lot.

Why are his prints not collectible anymore?

[cest]

Aug 14, 2019 13:04:16 GMT 1 The Observer said:

Aug 7, 2019 3:17:05 GMT 1 19818914 said:

These should be half the price he is charging. Since his prints aren’t collectible anymore he should make them all open edition and lower the prices by a lot.

Why are his prints not collectible anymore?

Ugh, so many.

I do think the top tier stuff is collectable:

Examples:
Gtf
Peace elephant
Lef
Obama hope/vote
Older stuff with andrw (pre 2008)
Etc.

[19818914]

These large formats are re releases of images done years ago. Although they are larger in size and produced in lower editions, I don’t see how that makes them any more valuable. As a collector I’d much rather have an early original run of a print than a 2019 remake.

[WOOF]

Aug 14, 2019 16:08:05 GMT 1 19818914 said:

These large formats are re releases of images done years ago. Although they are larger in size and produced in lower editions, I don’t see how that makes them any more valuable. As a collector I’d much rather have an early original run of a print than a 2019 remake.

The bold is what makes them more valuable...

[ca]

Aug 14, 2019 4:56:36 GMT 1 anodyne13 said:

I love that the large formats aren’t any good for flippers and “investment”.

I'd love that to be true but unfortunately expect the better releases at the end of be high in demand i.e hendrix and andre colors. Would love to be proven wrong though as I'd like both of those for my walls

[anodyne13]

Aug 14, 2019 19:06:53 GMT 1 ca said:

Aug 14, 2019 4:56:36 GMT 1 anodyne13 said:

I love that the large formats aren’t any good for flippers and “investment”.

I'd love that to be true but unfortunately expect the better releases at the end of be high in demand i.e hendrix and andre colors. Would love to be proven wrong though as I'd like both of those for my walls

Shhhh. The dolphins don’t know the difference if you don’t tell them.

[Whitefish]

"Proud Parents"

Here's how co-curator Pedro Alonzo explains the work:⁠⠀
Motivated by his long-held interests in using art to encourage critical awareness and dissent, in this print the artist co-opts the aesthetic of currency and popular tropes of the middle class to render a dystopian view of the American family. Created during the second term of the George W. Bush presidency, this print questions the increasingly skewed national values of this country and the role of money in furthering that condition.⁠⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⁠⠀⁠⠀⠀⁠⠀
With a deliberately vintage design, a couple cradles a bomb as if their child. Their loving and optimistic display, however, is surrounded by verbal puns that undermine their position and future. The family unit is consumed by a government that sponsors a nonsensical American scene, interested in investing more in the military instead of education.⁠⠀