Graffiti - is it ART?

[Daniel Silk]

Graffiti - is it ART?

Watch this video and then let us know what you think

[gm]

I lasted about 2 minutes. Those bits where it zooms in and out really fast were making me feel dizzy.

It all depends on your definition of "Art" tho, doesn't it?

[spence]

I agree with what is said in the film. Tagging is a pain in the arse, is a mess and makes places look run down. Normally done by bored teenagers. Not so much of it where i live but my mate lives in london and is plaqued with rubbish daubed over his garage. As soon as he cleans it off some t**t taggs it again. POINTLESS!! Any idiot can scrall a name on a wall.

Graffiti to me is art when pictures are made than can brightenn up an area or used to make a statement etc. Always done by people with a talent of which i'm jealous. I can't even draw a match stick man.

[numusic]

admin said:

Graffiti - is it ART?

Watch this video and then let us know what you think

STREET ART : A LABOUR OF LOVE :-) this Saturday's work ;D, the first public glow in the dark stencil from Numusic looks nice in the day too

[HowAboutNo]

Not always art....and certainly not this example. But if not art then irony always goes a long way! Made me chuckle anyway ;D

[Run Pig Run]

that men at work roadsign thing is one of the most amazing things ive ever seen...........where is it?

[numusic]

bombhugger said:

that men at work roadsign thing is one of the most amazing things ive ever seen...........where is it?

hey hey, did it last Saturday night ;D it's in Stavanger Norway ;D stood there today and watched the police and highway department unscrewing it to take it away ;D

[funkrye]

At least we all saw the photo's and enjoyed it.. Good stuff

[LoveRat]

numusic said:

bombhugger said:

that men at work roadsign thing is one of the most amazing things ive ever seen...........where is it?

hey hey, did it last Saturday night ;D it's in Stavanger Norway ;D stood there today and watched the police and highway department unscrewing it to take it away ;D

So you're a wanted man now , Numusic ?
The police AND the highway dept , how many does it take to unscrew a road sign ? Theres probably a joke in there somewhere.

[monochrome]

am i thought you hated 'hearts' and sentimental stuff lol

[numusic]

monochrome said:

am i thought you hated 'hearts' and sentimental stuff lol

labour of love, heart = hard work ;D,i rest my case !

[numusic]

silje said:

labour of love is good, but it reminds me of one i used walk by on my way to school last year..both in the visual image, and my terpetation of the idea behind it..? www.flickr.com/photos/konstruksjon/16114903/

strange you should say that.. he did that piece on the side of my venue in Stavanger last year ;-)

[digital1]

howaboutno said:

..... if not art then irony always goes a long way!

isn't the irony often almost as important as the image?

That Labour of Love is a fine piece.

[HowAboutNo]

digital1 said:

howaboutno said:

..... if not art then irony always goes a long way!

isn't the irony often almost as important as the image?

Yes Irony is important, I just meant that the piece next to the "CCTV" message I posted was high in irony stakes, but just not "art" (i.e tagger scum!)

[numusic]

digital1 said:

howaboutno said:

..... if not art then irony always goes a long way!

isn't the irony often almost as important as the image?

That Labour of Love is a fine piece.

Cheers ;D ;D

[upnose]

Graffiti will always be vandlism. Even if its pritty

[thwaites]

I disagree, the term vandalism connotes a mindless barbaric act, which although is true of some graffiti, is definitely not of others.

[ABC]

Tagging is vandalism full stop. but Graffiti takes a while to plan and in my view its art. what is the difference between Paper, canvas or a wall? Nothing they start of blank, throw paint on then you have art. Basic veiw but dont want to go to deep tonight. I used to have these chats at art college with the lecturers they said Vandalism I said art, they said tomado I said tomato. You get the picture

[Ågent ßacardi]

Well as to the question of whether graffiti is vandalism or art, I say it's both. Art is generally defined as "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance", and since "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", therein lies the arbitrary line between its status as vandalism or art. It's art when it's aesthetically pleasing and desirable, and it's vandalism when it's not so visually pleasing, lacks any meanings/messages whatsoever, and is generally unwanted. That being said, any given piece can be interpreted as vandalism or art according to the viewer's tastes and/or preferences. It's completely subjective. While many of us will probably say that tagging is a nuisance and not art, I'm sure there will be people who will think otherwise. Context is very important too, a Banksy piece in some snooty place like Beverly Hills will probably never be considered as "art" (assuming, for the sake of argument, that nobody in that area knows who he is and couldn't care less). But in a young/hip place such as Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, it'll definitely be a welcome contribution, and will likely be perceived as art by the people who frequent that area.

Personally, I think that if you're a graffiti writer but don't have the skills/creativity/good ideas, then you don't deserve to use public spaces as your canvas if you're trying to pass off as an artist. A big part of graffiti is its audience; if nobody's ever going to see what you write, then you probably won't write it unless you're plain bored and/or drunk. Public space is a public forum, so if you want to make use of it to express something, you'd better have something good to present. Otherwise, you're just wasting peoples' time and being a public nuisance, and you'll be regarded as a vandal and not an artist. It's like street busking - one could ask if it's art or noise pollution, and the distinction will lie in how good the busker is, and also if he/she is at the right place and the right time to hit his/her target audience. So IMO, street art contributes to a wisely chosen strata of society if it's good (art), and it's a nuisance if it's totally pointless and aesthetically unpleasant (vandalism).

[HowAboutNo]

Note to AgentB.....2007 is the year of short non babbling posting ;D

[Ågent ßacardi]

That was a short, non-babbling post.

;D

Can't have a decent and thoughtful discussion with just a sentence... after all, this forum is more than just "When will Trolleys be released?", right?

[HowAboutNo]

agentbacardi said:

That was a short, non-babbling post.

;D

Can't have a decent and thoughtful discussion with just a sentence... after all, this forum is more than just "When will Trolleys be released?", right?

Okay, good point. I'll bugger off and leave you to it then ;D

And it's mostly thanks to you that this forum stays readable!! Top job for 2006 BTW.

[thwaites]

howaboutno said:

agentbacardi said:

That was a short, non-babbling post.

;D

Can't have a decent and thoughtful discussion with just a sentence... after all, this forum is more than just "When will Trolleys be released?", right?

Okay, good point. I'll bugger off and leave you to it then ;D

And it's mostly thanks to you that this forum stays readable!! Top job for 2006 BTW.

very true! lets here it for agentb! and howaboutno as well now
lovely chaps

[numusic]

agentbacardi said:

Well as to the question of whether graffiti is vandalism or art, I say it's both. Art is generally defined as "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance", and since "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", therein lies the arbitrary line between its status as vandalism or art. It's art when it's aesthetically pleasing and desirable, and it's vandalism when it's not so visually pleasing, lacks any meanings/messages whatsoever, and is generally unwanted. That being said, any given piece can be interpreted as vandalism or art according to the viewer's tastes and/or preferences. It's completely subjective. While many of us will probably say that tagging is a nuisance and not art, I'm sure there will be people who will think otherwise. Context is very important too, a Banksy piece in some snooty place like Beverly Hills will probably never be considered as "art" (assuming, for the sake of argument, that nobody in that area knows who he is and couldn't care less). But in a young/hip place such as Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, it'll definitely be a welcome contribution, and will likely be perceived as art by the people who frequent that area.

Personally, I think that if you're a graffiti writer but don't have the skills/creativity/good ideas, then you don't deserve to use public spaces as your canvas if you're trying to pass off as an artist. A big part of graffiti is its audience; if nobody's ever going to see what you write, then you probably won't write it unless you're plain bored and/or drunk. Public space is a public forum, so if you want to make use of it to express something, you'd better have something good to present. Otherwise, you're just wasting peoples' time and being a public nuisance, and you'll be regarded as a vandal and not an artist. It's like street busking - one could ask if it's art or noise pollution, and the distinction will lie in how good the busker is, and also if he/she is at the right place and the right time to hit his/her target audience. So IMO, street art contributes to a wisely chosen strata of society if it's good (art), and it's a nuisance if it's totally pointless and aesthetically unpleasant (vandalism).

Interesting interpretation, but your definition of 'good' (art) & 'aesthetically unpleasant' is somewhat flawed.. it would leave an awfully large gap in art history. Most of interest generally challenges the 'status quo', throughout the ages new forms of expression have caused outrage and horror, the shock of the new.

Individual tags can be challenging, but taken collectively as a whole, it's quite an amazing movement and one that led directly to graffiti. The sketch to a painting perhaps. I guess there are different types of 'tagging', kids with pens writing on anything and everything without any cultural reference points to graf, and those others who see it as a precursor and legitimate type of graffiti.

Both equally important and intersting from a socio-cultural perspective. But it's not art, much closer to a form of urban caligraphy. Art is what artists do, for want of a better word.

[Ågent ßacardi]

Aw, I'm sure you guys are just exaggerating Thank you for the very kind words, all the same! *bows* ;D
Been a real pleasure exchanging posts with you guys as well! And thwaites, remember... the moment it goes into the pooper... you know who to call

;D

[gordy]

Apparently a slide is classed as art these days! ;D ;D

"For Carsten Höller, the experience of sliding is best summed up in a phrase by the French writer Roger Caillois as a 'voluptuous panic upon an otherwise lucid mind'. The slides are impressive sculptures in their own right, and you don't have to hurtle down them to appreciate this artwork. What interests Höller, however, is both the visual spectacle of watching people sliding and the 'inner spectacle' experienced by the sliders themselves, the state of simultaneous delight and anxiety that you enter as you descend."

If you get the chance get down there it is well worth a slide! ;D ;D

[thwaites]

heh! i will definately let you know. so.. have you got a rather large mansion over there in LA? if it does go down the pooper will i get to live a life of luxury?

Im watching a cool programme about damien hirst at the mo (channel 3) and it is showing all his art and he has a huge Napalm canvas, literally the size of a wall. he has a lovely old mansion castle. i want one.

[HowAboutNo]

agentbacardi said:

And thwaites, remember... the moment it goes into the pooper... you know who to call

;D

Tart.

[HowAboutNo]

thwaites said:

Im watching a cool programme about damien hirst at the mo (channel 3) and it is showing all his art and he has a huge Napalm canvas, literally the size of a wall. he has a lovely old mansion castle. i want one.

You mean ITV Thwaites?? Life Of Brian is on here (and no Martin I still didn't watch it) And Eastenders is on BBC3???

[numusic]

gordy said:

Apparently a slide is classed as art these days! ;D ;D

"For Carsten Höller, the experience of sliding is best summed up in a phrase by the French writer Roger Caillois as a 'voluptuous panic upon an otherwise lucid mind'. The slides are impressive sculptures in their own right, and you don't have to hurtle down them to appreciate this artwork. What interests Höller, however, is both the visual spectacle of watching people sliding and the 'inner spectacle' experienced by the sliders themselves, the state of simultaneous delight and anxiety that you enter as you descend."

If you get the chance get down there it is well worth a slide! ;D ;D

Anyone into Banksy will also like the show on level 2, features some great artists including Peter Kennard

www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/mediaburn/default.shtm