rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:27:18 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 0:27:18 GMT 1, 37.4% of the UK voted leave then. I for one, would very much like to change my mind and not be a part of that statistic anymore!!! Peoples vote to help me repent soon though. Youโre someone whose posts I often seem to agree with, and who I think tends to have similar leanings to me, but we voted differently on this one. In an absolutely non judgemental way, Iโd be quite interested to know what it was that led you to vote the way that you did. Thats all good with me, i have no need to fear my reasons for doing it. Probably why you find we agree on stuff. My reasons were about not liking 2 tier government, not wanting to pay them for it, and in the knowledge there would be some balancing involved but that it shouldnt be too much of an issue before it became a financially beneficial decision.
My big mistakes include, assuming peoples lives would not be used as bargaining chips, assuming that as both sides had a pre existing relationship that already pretty much worked (aligned laws etc) most of that would stay in place and a simple transition would occur. thats a brief summary in some way, or it will get all over the top and long, but safe to say, as soon as bojo the clown let rip with "Brussels can go whistle for their money" i knew the foundations of my theory were basically fucked. After that it just got worse.
It will probably feel like paying protection money if we get to stay in, but clearly we need the protection anytime the tories are even in existence, so hey, they can take my money!
37.4% of the UK voted leave then. I for one, would very much like to change my mind and not be a part of that statistic anymore!!! Peoples vote to help me repent soon though. Youโre someone whose posts I often seem to agree with, and who I think tends to have similar leanings to me, but we voted differently on this one. In an absolutely non judgemental way, Iโd be quite interested to know what it was that led you to vote the way that you did. Thats all good with me, i have no need to fear my reasons for doing it. Probably why you find we agree on stuff. My reasons were about not liking 2 tier government, not wanting to pay them for it, and in the knowledge there would be some balancing involved but that it shouldnt be too much of an issue before it became a financially beneficial decision. My big mistakes include, assuming peoples lives would not be used as bargaining chips, assuming that as both sides had a pre existing relationship that already pretty much worked (aligned laws etc) most of that would stay in place and a simple transition would occur. thats a brief summary in some way, or it will get all over the top and long, but safe to say, as soon as bojo the clown let rip with "Brussels can go whistle for their money" i knew the foundations of my theory were basically fucked. After that it just got worse. It will probably feel like paying protection money if we get to stay in, but clearly we need the protection anytime the tories are even in existence, so hey, they can take my money!
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:34:43 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Oct 12, 2018 0:34:43 GMT 1, They have. But there is certainly a debate that can be had as to whether they should have had an equal vote to young people. Or whether 16 year olds should have had the vote. Iโm not suggesting that either of those propositions is right. Merely that there is an interesting ethical/political discussion that could be had. My personal opinion is that the voting age should remain at 18. Obviously this is because Iโm an old bastard that doesnโt know the youth of today and all that but I have 3 children above this age and in my opinion I wouldnโt have felt that they were mature enough at 16 to make a decision on a political level such as a vote purely because they were going out with friends and having fun as they should be(this doesnโt mean youโre not capable of voting of course)I know this could be perceived as patronising and outdated but sometimes you think as a father rather than trying to program your childrenโs political future which unfortunately some parents do.
Fair comment. On the other hand, the decision taken will effect us for decades. This alone would suggest a weighting in favour of the young might be appropriate. Certainly there is an argument to be made? As for the young, both of mine could not vote. My eldest is now studying politics. My youngest is an artist with more political intelligence than many older than him. Both could vote now. Neither could then. I would trust them to have voted under 18, but over 16. They are left angry that a decision that will so substantially effect their future was taken without their input.
They have. But there is certainly a debate that can be had as to whether they should have had an equal vote to young people. Or whether 16 year olds should have had the vote. Iโm not suggesting that either of those propositions is right. Merely that there is an interesting ethical/political discussion that could be had. My personal opinion is that the voting age should remain at 18. Obviously this is because Iโm an old bastard that doesnโt know the youth of today and all that but I have 3 children above this age and in my opinion I wouldnโt have felt that they were mature enough at 16 to make a decision on a political level such as a vote purely because they were going out with friends and having fun as they should be(this doesnโt mean youโre not capable of voting of course)I know this could be perceived as patronising and outdated but sometimes you think as a father rather than trying to program your childrenโs political future which unfortunately some parents do. Fair comment. On the other hand, the decision taken will effect us for decades. This alone would suggest a weighting in favour of the young might be appropriate. Certainly there is an argument to be made? As for the young, both of mine could not vote. My eldest is now studying politics. My youngest is an artist with more political intelligence than many older than him. Both could vote now. Neither could then. I would trust them to have voted under 18, but over 16. They are left angry that a decision that will so substantially effect their future was taken without their input.
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vei
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,757
Likes โข 889
February 2013
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:35:15 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Oct 12, 2018 0:35:15 GMT 1, Pensioners have got exactly the same right to vote as anybody over the age of 18 regardless of what you think of their vote They have. But there is certainly a debate that can be had as to whether they should have had an equal vote to young people. Or whether 16 year olds should have had the vote. Iโm not suggesting that either of those propositions is right. Merely that there is an interesting ethical/political discussion that could be had.
What the hell.
There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether pensioners should have an equal vote to young people.
In the same way as;
There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether black people should have an equal vote to white people.
Or
There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether gay people should have an equal vote to straight people.
Or
There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether Jewish people should have an equal vote to Christian people.
Etc etc
Pensioners have got exactly the same right to vote as anybody over the age of 18 regardless of what you think of their vote They have. But there is certainly a debate that can be had as to whether they should have had an equal vote to young people. Or whether 16 year olds should have had the vote. Iโm not suggesting that either of those propositions is right. Merely that there is an interesting ethical/political discussion that could be had. What the hell. There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether pensioners should have an equal vote to young people. In the same way as; There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether black people should have an equal vote to white people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether gay people should have an equal vote to straight people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether Jewish people should have an equal vote to Christian people. Etc etc
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k2
New Member
Posts โข 528
Likes โข 972
November 2016
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:42:47 GMT 1
Brexit, by k2 on Oct 12, 2018 0:42:47 GMT 1, Youโre someone whose posts I often seem to agree with, and who I think tends to have similar leanings to me, but we voted differently on this one. In an absolutely non judgemental way, Iโd be quite interested to know what it was that led you to vote the way that you did. Thats all good with me, i have no need to fear my reasons for doing it. Probably why you find we agree on stuff. My reasons were about not liking 2 tier government, not wanting to pay them for it, and in the knowledge there would be some balancing involved but that it shouldnt be too much of an issue before it became a financially beneficial decision. My big mistakes include, assuming peoples lives would not be used as bargaining chips, assuming that as both sides had a pre existing relationship that already pretty much worked (aligned laws etc) most of that would stay in place and a simple transition would occur. thats a brief summary in some way, or it will get all over the top and long, but safe to say, as soon as bojo the clown let rip with "Brussels can go whistle for their money" i knew the foundations of my theory were basically fucked. After that it just got worse. It will probably feel like paying protection money if we get to stay in, but clearly we need the protection anytime the tories are even in existence, so hey, they can take my money! Thank you.
I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind).
Youโre someone whose posts I often seem to agree with, and who I think tends to have similar leanings to me, but we voted differently on this one. In an absolutely non judgemental way, Iโd be quite interested to know what it was that led you to vote the way that you did. Thats all good with me, i have no need to fear my reasons for doing it. Probably why you find we agree on stuff. My reasons were about not liking 2 tier government, not wanting to pay them for it, and in the knowledge there would be some balancing involved but that it shouldnt be too much of an issue before it became a financially beneficial decision. My big mistakes include, assuming peoples lives would not be used as bargaining chips, assuming that as both sides had a pre existing relationship that already pretty much worked (aligned laws etc) most of that would stay in place and a simple transition would occur. thats a brief summary in some way, or it will get all over the top and long, but safe to say, as soon as bojo the clown let rip with "Brussels can go whistle for their money" i knew the foundations of my theory were basically fucked. After that it just got worse. It will probably feel like paying protection money if we get to stay in, but clearly we need the protection anytime the tories are even in existence, so hey, they can take my money! Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind).
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vei
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,757
Likes โข 889
February 2013
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:49:18 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Oct 12, 2018 0:49:18 GMT 1, My personal opinion is that the voting age should remain at 18. Obviously this is because Iโm an old bastard that doesnโt know the youth of today and all that but I have 3 children above this age and in my opinion I wouldnโt have felt that they were mature enough at 16 to make a decision on a political level such as a vote purely because they were going out with friends and having fun as they should be(this doesnโt mean youโre not capable of voting of course)I know this could be perceived as patronising and outdated but sometimes you think as a father rather than trying to program your childrenโs political future which unfortunately some parents do. Fair comment. On the other hand, the decision taken will effect us for decades. This alone would suggest a weighting in favour of the young might be appropriate. Certainly there is an argument to be made? As for the young, both of mine could not vote. My eldest is now studying politics. My youngest is an artist with more political intelligence than many older than him. Both could vote now. Neither could then. I would trust them to have voted under 18, but over 16. They are left angry that a decision that will so substantially effect their future was taken without their input.
I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable
For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in.
What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes.
If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people.
My personal opinion is that the voting age should remain at 18. Obviously this is because Iโm an old bastard that doesnโt know the youth of today and all that but I have 3 children above this age and in my opinion I wouldnโt have felt that they were mature enough at 16 to make a decision on a political level such as a vote purely because they were going out with friends and having fun as they should be(this doesnโt mean youโre not capable of voting of course)I know this could be perceived as patronising and outdated but sometimes you think as a father rather than trying to program your childrenโs political future which unfortunately some parents do. Fair comment. On the other hand, the decision taken will effect us for decades. This alone would suggest a weighting in favour of the young might be appropriate. Certainly there is an argument to be made? As for the young, both of mine could not vote. My eldest is now studying politics. My youngest is an artist with more political intelligence than many older than him. Both could vote now. Neither could then. I would trust them to have voted under 18, but over 16. They are left angry that a decision that will so substantially effect their future was taken without their input. I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people.
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:50:35 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Oct 12, 2018 0:50:35 GMT 1, They have. But there is certainly a debate that can be had as to whether they should have had an equal vote to young people. Or whether 16 year olds should have had the vote. Iโm not suggesting that either of those propositions is right. Merely that there is an interesting ethical/political discussion that could be had. What the hell. There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether pensioners should have an equal vote to young people. In the same way as; There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether black people should have an equal vote to white people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether gay people should have an equal vote to straight people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether Jewish people should have an equal vote to Christian people. Etc etc
You seem to have misunderstood what I mean by debate. I was not proposing a weighting. I was saying that it was something that might be part of a discussion, a debate, a political or philosophical discussion.
They have. But there is certainly a debate that can be had as to whether they should have had an equal vote to young people. Or whether 16 year olds should have had the vote. Iโm not suggesting that either of those propositions is right. Merely that there is an interesting ethical/political discussion that could be had. What the hell. There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether pensioners should have an equal vote to young people. In the same way as; There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether black people should have an equal vote to white people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether gay people should have an equal vote to straight people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether Jewish people should have an equal vote to Christian people. Etc etc You seem to have misunderstood what I mean by debate. I was not proposing a weighting. I was saying that it was something that might be part of a discussion, a debate, a political or philosophical discussion.
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:50:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 0:50:38 GMT 1, Thats all good with me, i have no need to fear my reasons for doing it. Probably why you find we agree on stuff. My reasons were about not liking 2 tier government, not wanting to pay them for it, and in the knowledge there would be some balancing involved but that it shouldnt be too much of an issue before it became a financially beneficial decision. My big mistakes include, assuming peoples lives would not be used as bargaining chips, assuming that as both sides had a pre existing relationship that already pretty much worked (aligned laws etc) most of that would stay in place and a simple transition would occur. thats a brief summary in some way, or it will get all over the top and long, but safe to say, as soon as bojo the clown let rip with "Brussels can go whistle for their money" i knew the foundations of my theory were basically fucked. After that it just got worse. It will probably feel like paying protection money if we get to stay in, but clearly we need the protection anytime the tories are even in existence, so hey, they can take my money! Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind). I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else.
Thats all good with me, i have no need to fear my reasons for doing it. Probably why you find we agree on stuff. My reasons were about not liking 2 tier government, not wanting to pay them for it, and in the knowledge there would be some balancing involved but that it shouldnt be too much of an issue before it became a financially beneficial decision. My big mistakes include, assuming peoples lives would not be used as bargaining chips, assuming that as both sides had a pre existing relationship that already pretty much worked (aligned laws etc) most of that would stay in place and a simple transition would occur. thats a brief summary in some way, or it will get all over the top and long, but safe to say, as soon as bojo the clown let rip with "Brussels can go whistle for their money" i knew the foundations of my theory were basically fucked. After that it just got worse. It will probably feel like paying protection money if we get to stay in, but clearly we need the protection anytime the tories are even in existence, so hey, they can take my money! Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind). I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else.
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:53:20 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Oct 12, 2018 0:53:20 GMT 1, Fair comment. On the other hand, the decision taken will effect us for decades. This alone would suggest a weighting in favour of the young might be appropriate. Certainly there is an argument to be made? As for the young, both of mine could not vote. My eldest is now studying politics. My youngest is an artist with more political intelligence than many older than him. Both could vote now. Neither could then. I would trust them to have voted under 18, but over 16. They are left angry that a decision that will so substantially effect their future was taken without their input. I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people.
Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it.
Fair comment. On the other hand, the decision taken will effect us for decades. This alone would suggest a weighting in favour of the young might be appropriate. Certainly there is an argument to be made? As for the young, both of mine could not vote. My eldest is now studying politics. My youngest is an artist with more political intelligence than many older than him. Both could vote now. Neither could then. I would trust them to have voted under 18, but over 16. They are left angry that a decision that will so substantially effect their future was taken without their input. I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people. Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it.
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Masong
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,126
Likes โข 2,711
Member is Online
March 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:57:24 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Masong on Oct 12, 2018 0:57:24 GMT 1, Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind).ย ย I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else.ย
Yep the best way to win an argument is to call someone a racist ๐
Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind).ย ย I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else.ย Yep the best way to win an argument is to call someone a racist ๐
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vei
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,757
Likes โข 889
February 2013
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 0:58:18 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Oct 12, 2018 0:58:18 GMT 1, What the hell. There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether pensioners should have an equal vote to young people. In the same way as; There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether black people should have an equal vote to white people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether gay people should have an equal vote to straight people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether Jewish people should have an equal vote to Christian people. Etc etc You seem to have misunderstood what I mean by debate. I was not proposing a weighting. I was saying that it was something that might be part of a discussion, a debate, a political or philosophical discussion.
Really! I absolutely understand what you mean by debate.
There have been an ongoing debates about predudice in all its forms for decades now. The view of most is that itโs a bad thing, the debate continues as debates should do.
What the hell. There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether pensioners should have an equal vote to young people. In the same way as; There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether black people should have an equal vote to white people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether gay people should have an equal vote to straight people. Or There is absolutely no debate to be had as to wether Jewish people should have an equal vote to Christian people. Etc etc You seem to have misunderstood what I mean by debate. I was not proposing a weighting. I was saying that it was something that might be part of a discussion, a debate, a political or philosophical discussion. Really! I absolutely understand what you mean by debate. There have been an ongoing debates about predudice in all its forms for decades now. The view of most is that itโs a bad thing, the debate continues as debates should do.
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vei
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,757
Likes โข 889
February 2013
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:04:05 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Oct 12, 2018 1:04:05 GMT 1, I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people. Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it.
Why? You suggest a weighting might be appropriate and I said that was discriminatory. If you think Iโm wrong say why.
I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people. Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it. Why? You suggest a weighting might be appropriate and I said that was discriminatory. If you think Iโm wrong say why.
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:11:23 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 1:11:23 GMT 1, I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else. Yep the best way to win an argument is to call someone a racist ๐ Wasnt trying to win any argument, wasnt even in one. Best way to prove you dont get whats going on, see above.
I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else. Yep the best way to win an argument is to call someone a racist ๐ Wasnt trying to win any argument, wasnt even in one. Best way to prove you dont get whats going on, see above.
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Masong
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,126
Likes โข 2,711
Member is Online
March 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:13:58 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Masong on Oct 12, 2018 1:13:58 GMT 1, Yep the best way to win an argument is to call someone a racist ๐ Wasnt trying to win any argument, wasnt even in one. Best way to prove you dont get whats going on, see above.ย
Donโt worry about me,I get whatโs going on
Yep the best way to win an argument is to call someone a racist ๐ Wasnt trying to win any argument, wasnt even in one. Best way to prove you dont get whats going on, see above.ย Donโt worry about me,I get whatโs going on
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:16:28 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 1:16:28 GMT 1, Wasnt trying to win any argument, wasnt even in one. Best way to prove you dont get whats going on, see above. Donโt worry about me,I get whatโs going on Im not at all worried about you either, but you clearly didnt.
Wasnt trying to win any argument, wasnt even in one. Best way to prove you dont get whats going on, see above. Donโt worry about me,I get whatโs going on Im not at all worried about you either, but you clearly didnt.
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Masong
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,126
Likes โข 2,711
Member is Online
March 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:18:54 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Masong on Oct 12, 2018 1:18:54 GMT 1, Donโt worry about me,I get whatโs going on Im not at all worried about you either, but you clearly didnt.ย
Itโs easier for me to just like your post
Donโt worry about me,I get whatโs going on Im not at all worried about you either, but you clearly didnt.ย Itโs easier for me to just like your post
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:23:09 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 1:23:09 GMT 1, Im not at all worried about you either, but you clearly didnt. Itโs easier for me to just like your post Maybe it would be easier in the long term to read whats going on before you jump in with both feet.
Im not at all worried about you either, but you clearly didnt. Itโs easier for me to just like your post Maybe it would be easier in the long term to read whats going on before you jump in with both feet.
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Masong
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,126
Likes โข 2,711
Member is Online
March 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:24:44 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Masong on Oct 12, 2018 1:24:44 GMT 1, Itโs easier for me to just like your post Maybe it would be easier in the long term to read whats going on before you jump in with both feet.ย
Thanks for the advice
Itโs easier for me to just like your post Maybe it would be easier in the long term to read whats going on before you jump in with both feet.ย Thanks for the advice
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vei
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,757
Likes โข 889
February 2013
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 1:40:17 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Oct 12, 2018 1:40:17 GMT 1, I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people. Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it.
You suggest a weighting in favour of young people might be appropriate and youโre surprised at being challenged. So you โbow outโ as if the conversation is below you! And you said I misunderstood debate.
I canโt believe the overt prejudice being suggested as acceptable For a start weโre only in because the pensioners voted us in. What about a weighting in favour of white votes. What about a weighting in favour of male votes. If itโs ok to discriminate again, letโs not stop with old people. Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it. You suggest a weighting in favour of young people might be appropriate and youโre surprised at being challenged. So you โbow outโ as if the conversation is below you! And you said I misunderstood debate.
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 7:12:34 GMT 1
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 12, 2018 7:12:34 GMT 1, Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it. You suggest a weighting in favour of young people might be appropriate and youโre surprised at being challenged. So you โbow outโ as if the conversation is below you! And you said I misunderstood debate. The discussion around weighting reminded me of this contribution to the debate I once saw. Whilst firmly tongue in cheek, it highlights the issue of certain demographics looking out for themselves as opposed to those who have most to lose. Society has truly messed up on this one.
Iโm surprised to read this. Iโm going to bow out if this discussion now. Itโs a shame as I was enjoying it. You suggest a weighting in favour of young people might be appropriate and youโre surprised at being challenged. So you โbow outโ as if the conversation is below you! And you said I misunderstood debate. The discussion around weighting reminded me of this contribution to the debate I once saw. Whilst firmly tongue in cheek, it highlights the issue of certain demographics looking out for themselves as opposed to those who have most to lose. Society has truly messed up on this one.
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mojo
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,018
Likes โข 3,283
May 2014
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 8:41:21 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Oct 12, 2018 8:41:21 GMT 1, Islam didn't eat your hamster
Brexit came about after the EU decided they were going to attempt to put a stop to offshore tax havens, David Cameron was only ever trying to protect his fathers business model and he and his cronies offshore untraceable therefore nontaxable millions. Obviously since thes**t storm of political lies has resulted in a vote to leave the EU and the ensuing disruption the Union have been unable to pursue this cause as they have had to deal with a bunch of over privileged under qualified & utterly incompetent assholes wasting their time. In reality it's a total embarrassment to be British right now and a disgrace that all of these idiots have hung on to their jobs & wealth without question. If I was to perform that diabolically at work I would be sacked along with if I constantly made any of the horrible racist remarks Boris Johnson spouts on a daily basis along with if I didn't pay my tax, I'd go to jail. But hey we're all in this together ..........except in reality we're NOT. Half of the UK did NOT vote to leave the EU .......it's all bollocks.
Islam didn't eat your hamster Brexit came about after the EU decided they were going to attempt to put a stop to offshore tax havens, David Cameron was only ever trying to protect his fathers business model and he and his cronies offshore untraceable therefore nontaxable millions. Obviously since thes**t storm of political lies has resulted in a vote to leave the EU and the ensuing disruption the Union have been unable to pursue this cause as they have had to deal with a bunch of over privileged under qualified & utterly incompetent assholes wasting their time. In reality it's a total embarrassment to be British right now and a disgrace that all of these idiots have hung on to their jobs & wealth without question. If I was to perform that diabolically at work I would be sacked along with if I constantly made any of the horrible racist remarks Boris Johnson spouts on a daily basis along with if I didn't pay my tax, I'd go to jail. But hey we're all in this together ..........except in reality we're NOT. Half of the UK did NOT vote to leave the EU .......it's all bollocks.
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 9:45:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 9:45:43 GMT 1, Maybe it would be easier in the long term to read whats going on before you jump in with both feet. Thanks for the advice Your welcome, seems you need it.
Maybe it would be easier in the long term to read whats going on before you jump in with both feet. Thanks for the advice Your welcome, seems you need it.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 10:20:52 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 10:20:52 GMT 1, Cameron, in calling for an Brexit referendum, was simply bowing to public pressure. It is not really his fault that the general public contains far too many ignorant, xenophobic Little-Englanders with a British colonialist mentality. Clearly more ignorant, xenophobic Little Englanders with a British colonialist mentality than people that canโt except a democratic vote. I voted Remain and I accept the democratic vote. I just happen to think many people voted to Leave for all the wrong reasons. There was a large spike in racist attacks following the Brexit result. This was not a coincidence.
Cameron, in calling for an Brexit referendum, was simply bowing to public pressure. It is not really his fault that the general public contains far too many ignorant, xenophobic Little-Englanders with a British colonialist mentality. Clearly more ignorant, xenophobic Little Englanders with a British colonialist mentality than people that canโt except a democratic vote. I voted Remain and I accept the democratic vote. I just happen to think many people voted to Leave for all the wrong reasons. There was a large spike in racist attacks following the Brexit result. This was not a coincidence.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 10:31:08 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 10:31:08 GMT 1, One last thing - Brexit morons, please stop saying "the United Kingdom voted for Brexit", because it didn't - half of the United Kingdom voted for Brexit. Guy denning made a good point recently. This was not exactly it, but rather my interpretation of it. Very roughly speaking a third of the population voted to leave, a third voted to stay, and a third didnโt feel strongly enough to vote to leave (or either way, depending on your viewpoint). The bar should have been higher that 50% of these that could be bothered to vote imo. Nigel Farage, to his credit, did admit that if it was the other way round, he would not accept defeat if the Leave vote amounted to 48%
One last thing - Brexit morons, please stop saying "the United Kingdom voted for Brexit", because it didn't - half of the United Kingdom voted for Brexit. Guy denning made a good point recently. This was not exactly it, but rather my interpretation of it. Very roughly speaking a third of the population voted to leave, a third voted to stay, and a third didnโt feel strongly enough to vote to leave (or either way, depending on your viewpoint). The bar should have been higher that 50% of these that could be bothered to vote imo. Nigel Farage, to his credit, did admit that if it was the other way round, he would not accept defeat if the Leave vote amounted to 48%
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 10:37:29 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 10:37:29 GMT 1, Clearly more ignorant, xenophobic Little Englanders with a British colonialist mentality than people that canโt except a democratic vote. I voted Remain and I accept the democratic vote. I just happen to think many people voted to Leave for all the wrong reasons. There was a large spike in racist attacks following the Brexit result. This was not a coincidence. I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is.
If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory?
I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic.
We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late.
Clearly more ignorant, xenophobic Little Englanders with a British colonialist mentality than people that canโt except a democratic vote. I voted Remain and I accept the democratic vote. I just happen to think many people voted to Leave for all the wrong reasons. There was a large spike in racist attacks following the Brexit result. This was not a coincidence. I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is. If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory? I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic. We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 10:47:05 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 10:47:05 GMT 1, Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind). I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else. Sadly, it is thought that at least 49% of people would still vote for Brexit if a second vote happened today. It seems to have got to the position that many people want to leave the EU regardless of if it is a good or bad outcome for the UK. They think we are being bossed around by the EU and they don't like it. (That's not my view, by the way.)
Thank you. I find I tend to exist in a little bubble surrounded by people who (for the most part) share my opinions, so it's interesting to hear a different point of view (even if you've since changed your mind). I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else. Sadly, it is thought that at least 49% of people would still vote for Brexit if a second vote happened today. It seems to have got to the position that many people want to leave the EU regardless of if it is a good or bad outcome for the UK. They think we are being bossed around by the EU and they don't like it. (That's not my view, by the way.)
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k2
New Member
Posts โข 528
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November 2016
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 10:57:26 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by k2 on Oct 12, 2018 10:57:26 GMT 1, I voted Remain and I accept the democratic vote. ย I just happen to think many people voted to Leave for all the wrong reasons. ย There was a large spike in racist attacks following the Brexit result. ย This was not a coincidence. I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is.ย If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory?ย I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic.ย We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late.ย
The referendum was like being asked if you want to buy a piece of art without knowing the price, the dimensions, or the image. Iโm sure some are happy to buy on that basis, but I suspect that most prefer to have all the information to hand before making a decision.
Th argument about democracy and the will of the people is a strong one, but more a reflection on us being asked the wrong question in the first place. Rather than asking us if we want to buy the artwork โblindโ, it may have been better to ask us if we wanted to receive a copy of the PDF before making a final decision.
I voted Remain and I accept the democratic vote. ย I just happen to think many people voted to Leave for all the wrong reasons. ย There was a large spike in racist attacks following the Brexit result. ย This was not a coincidence. I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is.ย If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory?ย I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic.ย We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late.ย The referendum was like being asked if you want to buy a piece of art without knowing the price, the dimensions, or the image. Iโm sure some are happy to buy on that basis, but I suspect that most prefer to have all the information to hand before making a decision. Th argument about democracy and the will of the people is a strong one, but more a reflection on us being asked the wrong question in the first place. Rather than asking us if we want to buy the artwork โblindโ, it may have been better to ask us if we wanted to receive a copy of the PDF before making a final decision.
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.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,835
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December 2010
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:01:44 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 12, 2018 11:01:44 GMT 1, I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is.ย If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory?ย I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic.ย We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late.ย The referendum was like being asked if you want to buy a piece of art without knowing the price, the dimensions, or the image. Iโm sure some are happy to buy on that basis, but I suspect that most prefer to have all the information to hand before making a decision. Th argument about democracy and the will of the people is a strong one, but more a reflection on us being asked the wrong question in the first place. Rather than asking us if we want to buy the artwork โblindโ, it may have been better to ask us if we wanted to receive a copy of the PDF before making a final decision. ... fรผck me ... they showed us a big red fรผcking bus saying that we could save ยฃ350m a week and pay it directly into the NHS to save the much loved institution ... how much more valid information do you want, to make an informed decision ๐๐๐
I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is.ย If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory?ย I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic.ย We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late.ย The referendum was like being asked if you want to buy a piece of art without knowing the price, the dimensions, or the image. Iโm sure some are happy to buy on that basis, but I suspect that most prefer to have all the information to hand before making a decision. Th argument about democracy and the will of the people is a strong one, but more a reflection on us being asked the wrong question in the first place. Rather than asking us if we want to buy the artwork โblindโ, it may have been better to ask us if we wanted to receive a copy of the PDF before making a final decision. ... fรผck me ... they showed us a big red fรผcking bus saying that we could save ยฃ350m a week and pay it directly into the NHS to save the much loved institution ... how much more valid information do you want, to make an informed decision ๐๐๐
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rebate
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,050
Likes โข 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:05:58 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 11:05:58 GMT 1, I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else. Sadly, it is thought that at least 49% of people would still vote for Brexit if a second vote happened today. It seems to have got to the position that many people want to leave the EU regardless of if it is a good or bad outcome for the UK. They think we are being bossed around by the EU and they don't like it. (That's not my view, by the way.) Where does that 49% come from? I find that very unlikely, but would be interested to see the source.
I think to a large degree, the people hanging onto brexit now are the racists and the people with money to make. Most of the people who had thought about it and came up with brexit, have realised now it was a massive mistake. Once the basis for your decision is destroyed, its easy to accept you made a mistake (difficult not to really!). If its likely to be profitable, or based on some mad ingrained ideology that foreigners are bad (which it seems is quite a lot of people sadly!), then you probably wont care about much else. Sadly, it is thought that at least 49% of people would still vote for Brexit if a second vote happened today. It seems to have got to the position that many people want to leave the EU regardless of if it is a good or bad outcome for the UK. They think we are being bossed around by the EU and they don't like it. (That's not my view, by the way.) Where does that 49% come from? I find that very unlikely, but would be interested to see the source.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:09:37 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 11:09:37 GMT 1, This whole EU debate has made me deeply suspicious of referendum votes. Why should important and life-changing decisions be left to people who know little about the subject in hand (whether the subject is Brexit or anything else)? I would much prefer a few experts to get round the table and discuss the issues involved and come to a rational and educated decision on our behalf. I'm not sure why this "let the people decide" thing is so popular. I'm more tempted to say "don't let the people decide; let the experts decide".
This whole EU debate has made me deeply suspicious of referendum votes. Why should important and life-changing decisions be left to people who know little about the subject in hand (whether the subject is Brexit or anything else)? I would much prefer a few experts to get round the table and discuss the issues involved and come to a rational and educated decision on our behalf. I'm not sure why this "let the people decide" thing is so popular. I'm more tempted to say "don't let the people decide; let the experts decide".
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