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FЯ
Full Member
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May 2013
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Labour Party , by FЯ on Jun 25, 2016 22:54:23 GMT 1, the guardian:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
the guardian:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
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avec art
Junior Member
Posts • 3,724
Likes • 3,059
March 2014
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Labour Party , by avec art on Jun 26, 2016 0:29:11 GMT 1, looking at the petition, I think it goes up by about 500 votes every 10 seconds. So 3000 votes a minute, which is 180,000 an hour, meaning 4,320,000 every 24 hours. So I must downgrade my previous guess which was based on an earlier speed. By sometime Monday evening at the current (mean) pace it should reach 10 million.
looking at the petition, I think it goes up by about 500 votes every 10 seconds. So 3000 votes a minute, which is 180,000 an hour, meaning 4,320,000 every 24 hours. So I must downgrade my previous guess which was based on an earlier speed. By sometime Monday evening at the current (mean) pace it should reach 10 million.
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Has anyone changed their mind on this since yesterday?
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Labour Party , by Daniel Silk on Jun 26, 2016 12:11:26 GMT 1, "As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury"
"As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury"
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Bill Hicks
New Member
Posts • 930
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May 2008
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Has anyone changed their mind on this since yesterday? Defiantly, Possibly, Maybe not. 176,280
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Bill Hicks
New Member
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May 2008
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Labour Party , by Bill Hicks on Jun 26, 2016 13:02:04 GMT 1, "As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury"
"As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury"
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tartarus
Junior Member
Posts • 2,628
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February 2013
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Labour Party , by tartarus on Jun 26, 2016 13:13:03 GMT 1, "As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury" Wheres George? face deep in a bowl of coke? Nice to see him jumping in to reassure the country.
George Osbourne; Deserter.
"As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury" Wheres George? face deep in a bowl of coke? Nice to see him jumping in to reassure the country. George Osbourne; Deserter.
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londonfx
Junior Member
Posts • 1,163
Likes • 707
December 2013
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Labour Party , by londonfx on Jun 26, 2016 14:18:34 GMT 1, Chukka may be a good bet..but think the media have something on him which is why he pulled out last time.
Chukka would have been a great young leader. But there were accusations over his sexuality and the media kept hounding his family for dirt. So he withdrew from the race.
How is that kind of media behaviour going to attract young people into politics?
Chukka may be a good bet..but think the media have something on him which is why he pulled out last time. Chukka would have been a great young leader. But there were accusations over his sexuality and the media kept hounding his family for dirt. So he withdrew from the race. How is that kind of media behaviour going to attract young people into politics?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 15:38:54 GMT 1, Has anyone changed their mind on this since yesterday? I always had the same opinion about Corbyn. A deluded Leninin cap wearing commie career borgeouis old Labou MP.
He got elected leader on nostalgia.
Since he became leader his speeches are not memorable and he belives people vote for him not how he comes across. I also think he is carrying on as Labour leader because thats all he wants to be. The Labour leader and only to become Prime Minister if the Tories hand him the election on a plate and not fight to be PM.
In other words a complete waste of space.
Has anyone changed their mind on this since yesterday? I always had the same opinion about Corbyn. A deluded Leninin cap wearing commie career borgeouis old Labou MP. He got elected leader on nostalgia. Since he became leader his speeches are not memorable and he belives people vote for him not how he comes across. I also think he is carrying on as Labour leader because thats all he wants to be. The Labour leader and only to become Prime Minister if the Tories hand him the election on a plate and not fight to be PM. In other words a complete waste of space.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 15:42:14 GMT 1, "As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury" I got blocked by Tom Whatson on twitter, just cos I sent him my cartoon of Corbyn.
"As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury" I got blocked by Tom Whatson on twitter, just cos I sent him my cartoon of Corbyn.
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tartarus
Junior Member
Posts • 2,628
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February 2013
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Labour Party , by tartarus on Jun 26, 2016 16:01:49 GMT 1, "As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury" I got blocked by Tom Whatson on twitter, just cos I sent him my cartoon of Corbyn. I can respect his decision.
"As Labour sinks into crisis, deputy leader Tom Watson parties at Glastonbury" I got blocked by Tom Whatson on twitter, just cos I sent him my cartoon of Corbyn. I can respect his decision.
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Labour Party , by Daniel Silk on Jun 26, 2016 16:31:33 GMT 1,
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tartarus
Junior Member
Posts • 2,628
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February 2013
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rufas
New Member
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December 2015
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Labour Party , by rufas on Jun 27, 2016 1:13:09 GMT 1, Does anyone seriously think that a neoliberal Blairite can help reconnect with the disenfranchised working class traditional Labour voters?
Distrust with the political system in post-industrial towns began years ago. The media and populist figures have fanned the the discontent through nationalism and euroscepticism going back years. Tristram Hunt called for Corbyn to resign, but failed to connect with his own constitutions, who overwhelmingly voted Brexit. Maybe a lack of proportional representation, a political and media system unaccountable for it's broken promises and half truths, and a lack of job security has led to the referendum becoming the only way that people felt that change is possible. Cambridge elitist New Labour MPs with patronising plans for social mobility are a big part of the problem, especially in safe red seats in the north. The hangover of the Blair years and the downfall of industry going back decades hasn't gone away. Miliband challenging Murdoch's monopoly led to all out attack, and was only going to increase with corbyn.
Corbyn has been attacked from his own shadow cabinet from day one, he tried to appoint a diverse shadow cabinet and this is what it gets you.... a whatsapp orchestrated mutiny to kick a man when he is down. This was not Labour's loss. Corbyn could reconnect with disenfranchised working class voters if given time and surrounded by a better shadow cabinet, and the attacks to undermine him stop and his mandate recognised. He is digging in, we will see some of that "backbone" that Hunt called for.
Not from The Thick of It, but via The Guardian:
"Rumours in Westminster were that the MPs had organised themselves via a WhatsApp group called 'the birthday' with one supporter of Corbyn saying information about the coup had been passed on to the leadership team, including the fact that Powell was likely to resign."
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/corbyn-to-hold-crisis-talks-as-labour-mps-try-to-force-him-out
Tristram Hunt's attack on Corbyn,note where he says his real anger lies at Boris, after spending most of the article attacking Corbyn: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-must-go
Paul Mason, who Hunt quotes in his article, on Labour's coup attempt: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-leader-brexit-labour-rebels-sabotage?client=ms-android-sonymobile#
Isn't the Chilcot report due out soon? Dan Jarvis could be Blair's choice to ensure damage limitations. Just a thought 😉
Does anyone seriously think that a neoliberal Blairite can help reconnect with the disenfranchised working class traditional Labour voters? Distrust with the political system in post-industrial towns began years ago. The media and populist figures have fanned the the discontent through nationalism and euroscepticism going back years. Tristram Hunt called for Corbyn to resign, but failed to connect with his own constitutions, who overwhelmingly voted Brexit. Maybe a lack of proportional representation, a political and media system unaccountable for it's broken promises and half truths, and a lack of job security has led to the referendum becoming the only way that people felt that change is possible. Cambridge elitist New Labour MPs with patronising plans for social mobility are a big part of the problem, especially in safe red seats in the north. The hangover of the Blair years and the downfall of industry going back decades hasn't gone away. Miliband challenging Murdoch's monopoly led to all out attack, and was only going to increase with corbyn. Corbyn has been attacked from his own shadow cabinet from day one, he tried to appoint a diverse shadow cabinet and this is what it gets you.... a whatsapp orchestrated mutiny to kick a man when he is down. This was not Labour's loss. Corbyn could reconnect with disenfranchised working class voters if given time and surrounded by a better shadow cabinet, and the attacks to undermine him stop and his mandate recognised. He is digging in, we will see some of that "backbone" that Hunt called for. Not from The Thick of It, but via The Guardian: "Rumours in Westminster were that the MPs had organised themselves via a WhatsApp group called 'the birthday' with one supporter of Corbyn saying information about the coup had been passed on to the leadership team, including the fact that Powell was likely to resign." www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/corbyn-to-hold-crisis-talks-as-labour-mps-try-to-force-him-outTristram Hunt's attack on Corbyn,note where he says his real anger lies at Boris, after spending most of the article attacking Corbyn: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-must-goPaul Mason, who Hunt quotes in his article, on Labour's coup attempt: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-leader-brexit-labour-rebels-sabotage?client=ms-android-sonymobile#Isn't the Chilcot report due out soon? Dan Jarvis could be Blair's choice to ensure damage limitations. Just a thought 😉
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nex
Junior Member
Posts • 2,573
Likes • 1,819
February 2009
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Labour Party , by nex on Jun 27, 2016 1:18:34 GMT 1, Good post in short corbyns biggest failure is lack of media savvy, his politics is spot on as an alternative what is needed is an acceptable face of that to the chattering classes...
Good post in short corbyns biggest failure is lack of media savvy, his politics is spot on as an alternative what is needed is an acceptable face of that to the chattering classes...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 8:44:45 GMT 1, I remember the old days when this used to be an art forum.
I remember the old days when this used to be an art forum.
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rufas
New Member
Posts • 70
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December 2015
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Labour Party , by rufas on Jun 27, 2016 13:38:20 GMT 1, He won a huge mandate of labour party members, he has not been given time. Previous leadership candidates were elected by trade unions members. The EU referendum result was not Labour's loss, I don't understand how creating chaos is helping anything. Just look at the cabinet members resigning. They know he would would win a leadership contest amongst party membership support, so are trying to force him to resign. He may not be particularly media savvy, but do we need another snake oil salesman? Chilcot report due out soon isn't it? Just saying...
I quite like Chuka,he speaks well but was Blair's choice for leadership remember. I'm sure that his time will come, but the labour party needs to unite and back the leader now, especially seeing as they took a percentage point lead over the weekend. This infighting is not helping, certain MPs never wanted and respected Corbyn's leadership from day one, and are rubbing their hand together at the chance of a coup.
Maybe he hasn't got time to apply to all his emails since becoming leader,because he had been busy meeting people and fending off the vultures in his own party and the press. I know that I haven't got the time to respond to all my emails, and I'm a lot less busy. Money from trade unions is how the labour party was built, the attack on trade unions and downfall of British industry started the slide amongst labour voters, and the years of betrayal by Blair certainly didn't help.
Corbyn should remain as leader, otherwise hundreds of thousands of party members could leave the labour party overnight.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/labour-party-infighting-complete-irrelevancy-generation
He won a huge mandate of labour party members, he has not been given time. Previous leadership candidates were elected by trade unions members. The EU referendum result was not Labour's loss, I don't understand how creating chaos is helping anything. Just look at the cabinet members resigning. They know he would would win a leadership contest amongst party membership support, so are trying to force him to resign. He may not be particularly media savvy, but do we need another snake oil salesman? Chilcot report due out soon isn't it? Just saying... I quite like Chuka,he speaks well but was Blair's choice for leadership remember. I'm sure that his time will come, but the labour party needs to unite and back the leader now, especially seeing as they took a percentage point lead over the weekend. This infighting is not helping, certain MPs never wanted and respected Corbyn's leadership from day one, and are rubbing their hand together at the chance of a coup. Maybe he hasn't got time to apply to all his emails since becoming leader,because he had been busy meeting people and fending off the vultures in his own party and the press. I know that I haven't got the time to respond to all my emails, and I'm a lot less busy. Money from trade unions is how the labour party was built, the attack on trade unions and downfall of British industry started the slide amongst labour voters, and the years of betrayal by Blair certainly didn't help. Corbyn should remain as leader, otherwise hundreds of thousands of party members could leave the labour party overnight. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/labour-party-infighting-complete-irrelevancy-generation
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rufas
New Member
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December 2015
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rufas
New Member
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December 2015
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Labour Party , by rufas on Jun 27, 2016 13:52:10 GMT 1, I remember the old days when this used to be an art forum.
It still is, most forums have boards for wider discussion outside the specific field of interest. Art can be political. A lot of street art certainly is.The referendum result is if huge importance, probably the biggest event in British politics for years, if not decades. The repercussions will affect all of us to varying degrees, and will increase the power of Murdoch's press oligarchy, and the Tory right's free reign over the economy.
I remember the old days when this used to be an art forum. It still is, most forums have boards for wider discussion outside the specific field of interest. Art can be political. A lot of street art certainly is.The referendum result is if huge importance, probably the biggest event in British politics for years, if not decades. The repercussions will affect all of us to varying degrees, and will increase the power of Murdoch's press oligarchy, and the Tory right's free reign over the economy.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 14:41:00 GMT 1, I goto the bbc if I want to read politics.
I goto the bbc if I want to read politics.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 21:10:59 GMT 1, Corbyn will be gone by the end of this coming weekend.
He gave a speech tonight and was talking about Thatcher and Reaganomics. he is stuck in the past and on a par with those people at speakers corner in Hyde park. Then he mubled about we all have to work together. Probably a page from somebodies Gulag diary?
He is driving away younger voters and only attracts hard line unionists.
His new cabinet will start resigning by tomorrow.
www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/27/brexit-live-george-osborne-economy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet
"Brexit live: Labour MPs to hold no confidence vote in Jeremy Corbyn"
"In notes from an MP who was inside the meeting, they say that Alan Johnson MP said “I fought the [EU referendum] campaign and I take my responsibility, but you’ve got to take yours. Your office did not even turn up for the weekly meetings.”
Corbyn will be gone by the end of this coming weekend. He gave a speech tonight and was talking about Thatcher and Reaganomics. he is stuck in the past and on a par with those people at speakers corner in Hyde park. Then he mubled about we all have to work together. Probably a page from somebodies Gulag diary? He is driving away younger voters and only attracts hard line unionists. His new cabinet will start resigning by tomorrow. www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/27/brexit-live-george-osborne-economy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet"Brexit live: Labour MPs to hold no confidence vote in Jeremy Corbyn"
"In notes from an MP who was inside the meeting, they say that Alan Johnson MP said “I fought the [EU referendum] campaign and I take my responsibility, but you’ve got to take yours. Your office did not even turn up for the weekly meetings.”
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 21:13:12 GMT 1, can all the guys and gals that have resigned, re-join if he does decide to go?
oh, and seriously, the labour party needed to do all this shit just after the referendum? you know, like for the good of the country?
They didn't think it would be better to leave it for a few months after? even days or weeks?
wankers
can all the guys and gals that have resigned, re-join if he does decide to go?
oh, and seriously, the labour party needed to do all this shit just after the referendum? you know, like for the good of the country?
They didn't think it would be better to leave it for a few months after? even days or weeks?
wankers
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rufas
New Member
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December 2015
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Labour Party , by rufas on Jun 28, 2016 0:58:46 GMT 1, Corbyn will be gone by the end of this coming weekend. He gave a speech tonight and was talking about Thatcher and Reaganomics. he is stuck in the past and on a par with those people at speakers corner in Hyde park. Then he mubled about we all have to work together. Probably a page from somebodies Gulag diary? He is driving away younger voters and only attracts hard line unionists. His new cabinet will start resigning by tomorrow. www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/27/brexit-live-george-osborne-economy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet"Brexit live: Labour MPs to hold no confidence vote in Jeremy Corbyn"
"In notes from an MP who was inside the meeting, they say that Alan Johnson MP said “I fought the [EU referendum] campaign and I take my responsibility, but you’ve got to take yours. Your office did not even turn up for the weekly meetings.”
If you honestly believe that corbyn is detracting younger voters, then you could not be more wrong. Look at the crowds that turned up to support him at short notice today, I'm not sure what a 'hardline unionist' looks like so I couldn't comment. If you knew anything about British politics then you would understand the damage that Thatcher had on the industrial town communities voting Brexit.
Corbyn will be gone by the end of this coming weekend. He gave a speech tonight and was talking about Thatcher and Reaganomics. he is stuck in the past and on a par with those people at speakers corner in Hyde park. Then he mubled about we all have to work together. Probably a page from somebodies Gulag diary? He is driving away younger voters and only attracts hard line unionists. His new cabinet will start resigning by tomorrow. www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/27/brexit-live-george-osborne-economy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet"Brexit live: Labour MPs to hold no confidence vote in Jeremy Corbyn"
"In notes from an MP who was inside the meeting, they say that Alan Johnson MP said “I fought the [EU referendum] campaign and I take my responsibility, but you’ve got to take yours. Your office did not even turn up for the weekly meetings.”
If you honestly believe that corbyn is detracting younger voters, then you could not be more wrong. Look at the crowds that turned up to support him at short notice today, I'm not sure what a 'hardline unionist' looks like so I couldn't comment. If you knew anything about British politics then you would understand the damage that Thatcher had on the industrial town communities voting Brexit.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Labour Party , by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 4:31:48 GMT 1, What's putting off young to middle aged voters, is the way politics is now played out, and Labours recent history, rather than Corby.
I know a number of older Labour voters, who maintain that they will never vote Labour again, due to the blood on Blairs hands. If youth are joining Labour, then I imagine that they are predominantly English, who live in ignorance of the enormity of the atrocities, carried out under the banner of Labour. (That's not a dig at the English by the way, so please don't interpret it as one.) Labour voters around here are a dying breed. Odd how labour supporters seem to want to live in denial of mass genocide though, and quietly sweep it away under the parliamentary carpet. History has not forgotten what Blair did, or the number of people he ignored, how many took to the streets? That was all lies too, but hey that's democracy, plus that was then and this is now right.
I moved back to South Wales, from the North East of England less than a month ago, and can only see Plaid Cymru here gaining more votes, labour are a spent force. Leanne wood, I don't take to, I've discovered more passion in a cold bucket of water. I also never thought that I would vote, ironically for a Nationalist party ever in my life. I can see no other way to go now as far as voting is concerned though, other than abstain. I have never voted Labour, and never would, not after Blair, and certainly not now, not after this. The divisions that seem to plague labour, have and are, already causing many to at least think if not yet act, even more divisively, including myself.
All these separate political threads are really just part of the same equation. I sincerely hope that Scotland remain a strong part of the U.K. If Scotland Leave, then the Welsh will increasingly resent feeling owned. It's ugly. Wales can not stand economically on her own two feet, she needs England, and her European cousins.
I'm trying to be positive believe it or not. I'm trying to tell myself that devolution has been on the cards for a long time anyway. I'm telling myself that oh well, suppose it was inevitable, and this referendum has simply been the catalyst. It's not working though. This vote hasn't divided a nation, it's dividing a kingdom and its principalities, in spite of England and Wales largely voting the same way. It's also dividing communities. The divisions will become further extreme, if not already alltogether insane. While we are squabbling, and ripping each other apart like a pack of wild dogs, who will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Poor old Corb can't do right for doing wrong. On the Welsh regional News, pensioners canvassed for their opinion critisised him for not voicing a strong enough opinion one way, while younger people condemn him for the exact opposite.
God knows what those of other Nationalities on here think, we must seem like a terribly small bunch of inward looking loonatics. It's a heady mixture of shoring yourself up, trying to use the adrenalin rush in a positive way, before coming back to barely veiled anger. This is not emotionally, or mentally healthy, either individually, or for the collective psyche of this country.
I feel like this country's just been injected with lethal poison.
I don't even get the mentality on this forum anymore. I didn't find Cameron ribbing labour, and the House of Commons giggling, funny in the least. It was repulsive.
I will be temporarily removing myself from this society shortly, and not a moment too soon.
Peace Is Tough.
What's putting off young to middle aged voters, is the way politics is now played out, and Labours recent history, rather than Corby.
I know a number of older Labour voters, who maintain that they will never vote Labour again, due to the blood on Blairs hands. If youth are joining Labour, then I imagine that they are predominantly English, who live in ignorance of the enormity of the atrocities, carried out under the banner of Labour. (That's not a dig at the English by the way, so please don't interpret it as one.) Labour voters around here are a dying breed. Odd how labour supporters seem to want to live in denial of mass genocide though, and quietly sweep it away under the parliamentary carpet. History has not forgotten what Blair did, or the number of people he ignored, how many took to the streets? That was all lies too, but hey that's democracy, plus that was then and this is now right.
I moved back to South Wales, from the North East of England less than a month ago, and can only see Plaid Cymru here gaining more votes, labour are a spent force. Leanne wood, I don't take to, I've discovered more passion in a cold bucket of water. I also never thought that I would vote, ironically for a Nationalist party ever in my life. I can see no other way to go now as far as voting is concerned though, other than abstain. I have never voted Labour, and never would, not after Blair, and certainly not now, not after this. The divisions that seem to plague labour, have and are, already causing many to at least think if not yet act, even more divisively, including myself.
All these separate political threads are really just part of the same equation. I sincerely hope that Scotland remain a strong part of the U.K. If Scotland Leave, then the Welsh will increasingly resent feeling owned. It's ugly. Wales can not stand economically on her own two feet, she needs England, and her European cousins.
I'm trying to be positive believe it or not. I'm trying to tell myself that devolution has been on the cards for a long time anyway. I'm telling myself that oh well, suppose it was inevitable, and this referendum has simply been the catalyst. It's not working though. This vote hasn't divided a nation, it's dividing a kingdom and its principalities, in spite of England and Wales largely voting the same way. It's also dividing communities. The divisions will become further extreme, if not already alltogether insane. While we are squabbling, and ripping each other apart like a pack of wild dogs, who will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Poor old Corb can't do right for doing wrong. On the Welsh regional News, pensioners canvassed for their opinion critisised him for not voicing a strong enough opinion one way, while younger people condemn him for the exact opposite.
God knows what those of other Nationalities on here think, we must seem like a terribly small bunch of inward looking loonatics. It's a heady mixture of shoring yourself up, trying to use the adrenalin rush in a positive way, before coming back to barely veiled anger. This is not emotionally, or mentally healthy, either individually, or for the collective psyche of this country.
I feel like this country's just been injected with lethal poison.
I don't even get the mentality on this forum anymore. I didn't find Cameron ribbing labour, and the House of Commons giggling, funny in the least. It was repulsive.
I will be temporarily removing myself from this society shortly, and not a moment too soon.
Peace Is Tough.
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Labour Party , by Daniel Silk on Jun 28, 2016 16:49:24 GMT 1, I hope comrade Corbyn does stay on as Labour leader, I think it's the party being totally honest to its values and beliefs rather than pandering to the public to get elected. It just means they will become a small minority party of extremists with absolutely no hope of getting into power. I think we would see maybe half the Labour MP's defect to Lib Dem, UKIP, or maybe a new party.
I hope comrade Corbyn does stay on as Labour leader, I think it's the party being totally honest to its values and beliefs rather than pandering to the public to get elected. It just means they will become a small minority party of extremists with absolutely no hope of getting into power. I think we would see maybe half the Labour MP's defect to Lib Dem, UKIP, or maybe a new party.
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rufas
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December 2015
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Labour Party , by rufas on Jun 28, 2016 18:03:39 GMT 1, I goto the bbc if I want to read politics.
Maybe just ignore the thread 'The Labour Party' then?
I goto the bbc if I want to read politics. Maybe just ignore the thread 'The Labour Party' then?
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rufas
New Member
Posts • 70
Likes • 71
December 2015
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