Dr Plip
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August 2011
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by Dr Plip on Nov 11, 2015 1:35:21 GMT 1, "Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16)
Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him.
Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this.
StolenSpace Gallery"
Physical threats? Really?
"Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16) Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him. Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this. StolenSpace Gallery" Physical threats? Really? |
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11
Junior Member
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February 2011
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by 11 on Nov 11, 2015 1:38:53 GMT 1, Pleasing to see they'd pulled the plug on the show, and not good if they have been receiving threats of violence BUT I think it very poor form to use that as the reason to pull the show.
Grow a pair (I say....meekly)
Pleasing to see they'd pulled the plug on the show, and not good if they have been receiving threats of violence BUT I think it very poor form to use that as the reason to pull the show.
Grow a pair (I say....meekly)
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
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August 2011
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by Dr Plip on Nov 11, 2015 1:48:27 GMT 1, If the staff have received actual threats of violence, then the offenders should be named and shamed at the very least. Perhaps even the Police involved if it's that serious.
If the staff have received actual threats of violence, then the offenders should be named and shamed at the very least. Perhaps even the Police involved if it's that serious.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by met on Nov 11, 2015 5:33:11 GMT 1, Pleasing to see they'd pulled the plug on the show, and not good if they have been receiving threats of violence BUT I think it very poor form to use that as the reason to pull the show. Grow a pair (I say....meekly)
You've interpreted the text of the notice in quite a different manner than I have.
The way the last two sentences are structured, I see the primary stated cause for cancellation (regardless of what the true motivation may have been) as being, "we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters" โ since this immediately precedes the confirmation of cancellation.
To me, the earlier reference to threats reads like contextual background, an aggravating factor, and having been the last straw, i.e. an additional reason for pulling the show, as opposed to the reason:
Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16)
Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him.
Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this.
StolenSpace Gallery
Regardless, what interests me far more are the cited discussions between Krafft and StolenSpace. I'm curious as to the explanations and possible assurances provided by the artist which gave the gallery sufficient comfort to agree to a solo exhibition in the first place โ and to proceed on the basis that the controversy of past interviews was a matter that "had been resolved".
Pleasing to see they'd pulled the plug on the show, and not good if they have been receiving threats of violence BUT I think it very poor form to use that as the reason to pull the show. Grow a pair (I say....meekly) You've interpreted the text of the notice in quite a different manner than I have. The way the last two sentences are structured, I see the primary stated cause for cancellation (regardless of what the true motivation may have been) as being, "we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters" โ since this immediately precedes the confirmation of cancellation. To me, the earlier reference to threats reads like contextual background, an aggravating factor, and having been the last straw, i.e. an additional reason for pulling the show, as opposed to the reason: Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16)
Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him.
Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this.
StolenSpace GalleryRegardless, what interests me far more are the cited discussions between Krafft and StolenSpace. I'm curious as to the explanations and possible assurances provided by the artist which gave the gallery sufficient comfort to agree to a solo exhibition in the first place โ and to proceed on the basis that the controversy of past interviews was a matter that "had been resolved". |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 8:46:22 GMT 1, "Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16) Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him. Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this. StolenSpace Gallery" Physical threats? Really?
They also have a responsibility to their employees in terms of what they exhibit, and should have realised the provocative nature of what they were proposing.
"Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16) Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him. Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this. StolenSpace Gallery" Physical threats? Really? It's very easy to cite 'physical and verbal threats' as a reason; a get-out clause that detracts from their responsibility both as a gallery and for their location. Perhaps an understanding of the history of the East End might have helped. They also have a responsibility to their employees in terms of what they exhibit, and should have realised the provocative nature of what they were proposing. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 11:51:40 GMT 1, The police requested that SS gallery reconsider, on behalf of concerned minority groups.
There was protest from within, from the galleries own staff, a few of whom were audibly saddened and shocked to learn of the artists connections.
For some it is simply an art show. For others it is to give a platform to a Nazi apologist and holocaust denier.
To do this at all would be misguided, to do it so soon after armistice day and in the heart of East London, defies belief.
News of this spread throughout the UK, leading to a number of complaints to the police, and direct to the gallery. The complaints were from both individuals and organization's.
As for threats, verbal and physical to staff, if this is really true, then that is indeed a police matter.
Where is the evidence for this assertion?
You will not find a single case.
Fortunately, people have proved themselves better than that , maintained their dignity, and behaved responsibly, and avoided stooping to that level.
The only shame is on SS, not its staff, who are good natured inocent people, but the gallery director, who made a gross error of judgement.
The police requested that SS gallery reconsider, on behalf of concerned minority groups.
There was protest from within, from the galleries own staff, a few of whom were audibly saddened and shocked to learn of the artists connections.
For some it is simply an art show. For others it is to give a platform to a Nazi apologist and holocaust denier.
To do this at all would be misguided, to do it so soon after armistice day and in the heart of East London, defies belief.
News of this spread throughout the UK, leading to a number of complaints to the police, and direct to the gallery. The complaints were from both individuals and organization's.
As for threats, verbal and physical to staff, if this is really true, then that is indeed a police matter.
Where is the evidence for this assertion?
You will not find a single case.
Fortunately, people have proved themselves better than that , maintained their dignity, and behaved responsibly, and avoided stooping to that level.
The only shame is on SS, not its staff, who are good natured inocent people, but the gallery director, who made a gross error of judgement.
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mutatis
New Member
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July 2013
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by mutatis on Nov 12, 2015 12:40:24 GMT 1, The police requested that SS gallery reconsider, on behalf of concerned minority groups. There was protest from within, from the galleries own staff, a few of whom were audibly saddened and shocked to learn of the artists connections. For some it is simply an art show. For others it is to give a platform to a Nazi apologist and holocaust denier. To do this at all would be misguided, to do it so soon after armistice day and in the heart of East London, defies belief. News of this spread throughout the UK, leading to a number of complaints to the police, and direct to the gallery. The complaints were from both individuals and organization's. As for threats, verbal and physical to staff, if this is really true, then that is indeed a police matter. Where is the evidence for this assertion? You will not find a single case. Fortunately, people have proved themselves better than that , maintained their dignity, and behaved responsibly, and avoided stooping to that level. The only shame is on SS, not its staff, who are good natured inocent people, but the gallery director, who made a gross error of judgement.
The police requested that SS gallery reconsider, on behalf of concerned minority groups. There was protest from within, from the galleries own staff, a few of whom were audibly saddened and shocked to learn of the artists connections. For some it is simply an art show. For others it is to give a platform to a Nazi apologist and holocaust denier. To do this at all would be misguided, to do it so soon after armistice day and in the heart of East London, defies belief. News of this spread throughout the UK, leading to a number of complaints to the police, and direct to the gallery. The complaints were from both individuals and organization's. As for threats, verbal and physical to staff, if this is really true, then that is indeed a police matter. Where is the evidence for this assertion? You will not find a single case. Fortunately, people have proved themselves better than that , maintained their dignity, and behaved responsibly, and avoided stooping to that level. The only shame is on SS, not its staff, who are good natured inocent people, but the gallery director, who made a gross error of judgement. @jay1 welcome to the forum. An interesting first post. I am not alone in sharing your sympathies, but from some of the assertions you make, you seem to be closely connected to the issue. May I ask your connection? Thanks |
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tab1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,519
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September 2011
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by tab1 on Nov 12, 2015 13:10:09 GMT 1, "Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16) Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him. Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this. StolenSpace Gallery" Physical threats? Really?
By throwing out they have been physically threAtened will try to cast they are a victim , easy pr to backtrack on a bad choice they have made
Would think research in any artist that represents your business as in that long term would do more damage on the reputation of the business and potentially a few people will take business elsewhere.
Similar thread a while ago when an artist copied another's work and the print house / gallery denied all knowledge even though it was made , released and promoted by them , easy to deny knowledge
Seems too many galleries are eager to make the money with out doing research or choosing to ignore facts but as always with the internet someone draws up the facts.
"Charles Krafft 'Conjugal Visit' exhibition has been cancelled (10/11/2015 @ 19:16:16) Whilst we have listened diligently to Charles Krafft๏ฟฝs explanations surrounding the controversy of past interviews, it was naive of StolenSpace to think that this matter had been resolved and that the controversy would not follow him. Both physical and verbal threats have been made against the gallery and our staff, and although StolenSpace does not believe in censorship or cyber bullying, we do respect the opinions and feelings about such sensitive matters. We therefore feel it is appropriate that the show is cancelled in light of this. StolenSpace Gallery" Physical threats? Really? By throwing out they have been physically threAtened will try to cast they are a victim , easy pr to backtrack on a bad choice they have made Would think research in any artist that represents your business as in that long term would do more damage on the reputation of the business and potentially a few people will take business elsewhere. Similar thread a while ago when an artist copied another's work and the print house / gallery denied all knowledge even though it was made , released and promoted by them , easy to deny knowledge Seems too many galleries are eager to make the money with out doing research or choosing to ignore facts but as always with the internet someone draws up the facts. |
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by Happy Shopper on Nov 12, 2015 13:28:15 GMT 1, I don't agree with nationalistic views but can understand someone questioning the rights and wrongs of nationalism and it's history... no harm in taking an interest.
Nationalism is mostly created by the fear of things changing, despite the evidence that things always do, but I can totally see why people are scared.
Immigration and foreign influences changing the area we live is clearly an issue that concerns people (most people if we're honest!)
Is this the kind of thing that Krafft is getting at?
But his use of far right imagery is more difficult to understand. It makes it look like he's saying Hitler, etc should be reconsidered, rather than simply nationalism or right wing politics. I'm not sure what's actually going on there.
Has he really tried to deny the holocaust though? I've not seen any evidence that he's gone that far?? I've only read a few articles though!
Just read that bit in an article... he's an idiot!
I don't agree with nationalistic views but can understand someone questioning the rights and wrongs of nationalism and it's history... no harm in taking an interest.
Nationalism is mostly created by the fear of things changing, despite the evidence that things always do, but I can totally see why people are scared.
Immigration and foreign influences changing the area we live is clearly an issue that concerns people (most people if we're honest!)
Is this the kind of thing that Krafft is getting at?
But his use of far right imagery is more difficult to understand. It makes it look like he's saying Hitler, etc should be reconsidered, rather than simply nationalism or right wing politics. I'm not sure what's actually going on there.
Has he really tried to deny the holocaust though? I've not seen any evidence that he's gone that far?? I've only read a few articles though!
Just read that bit in an article... he's an idiot!
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Charles Krafft ๐บ๐ธ Ceramic Guns โข China Hand Grenade, by met on Nov 13, 2015 13:37:20 GMT 1, Very interesting......hadn't seen that. Thank you. I think that there's no doubt that passage of time is one of the things which influences our attitudes. We're starting to veer towards an equation similar to the one expressed with self-satisfaction by Lester in Crimes and Misdemeanors โ a film directed by a man, at the time in his mid-fifties, who had an affair with (and later married) his long-term girlfriend's 21-year-old adopted daughter. Connection between Woody Allen and Siouxsie Sioux? There are three (or, at most, four) degrees of separation.
Woody Allen
โ> Mia Farrow (Allen's long-term former girlfriend)
โ> Prudence Farrow (Mia's sister)
โ> Dear Prudence (1968 Beatles song inspired by Prudence Farrow)
โ> Siouxsie Sioux (who, with the Banshees, released a cover version of Dear Prudence in 1983)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Prudence#Background
The subject of the song is Prudence Farrow, a sister of actress Mia Farrow, who was present when the Beatles went to India to study with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Farrow became so serious about her meditation that she "turned into a near recluse" and "rarely came out" of the cottage she was living in. John Lennon was asked to "contact her and make sure she came out more often to socialize." As a result, Lennon wrote the song "Dear Prudence." In the song Lennon asks Farrow to "open up your eyes" and "see the sunny skies" reminding her that she is "part of everything." The song was said to be "a simple plea to a friend to 'snap out of it.'" Lennon said later that "She'd been locked in for three weeks and was trying to reach God quicker than anyone else."
Very interesting......hadn't seen that. Thank you. I think that there's no doubt that passage of time is one of the things which influences our attitudes. We're starting to veer towards an equation similar to the one expressed with self-satisfaction by Lester in Crimes and Misdemeanors โ a film directed by a man, at the time in his mid-fifties, who had an affair with (and later married) his long-term girlfriend's 21-year-old adopted daughter. Connection between Woody Allen and Siouxsie Sioux? There are three (or, at most, four) degrees of separation.โ> Mia Farrow (Allen's long-term former girlfriend) โ> Prudence Farrow (Mia's sister) โ> Dear Prudence (1968 Beatles song inspired by Prudence Farrow) โ> Siouxsie Sioux (who, with the Banshees, released a cover version of Dear Prudence in 1983) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Prudence#BackgroundThe subject of the song is Prudence Farrow, a sister of actress Mia Farrow, who was present when the Beatles went to India to study with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Farrow became so serious about her meditation that she "turned into a near recluse" and "rarely came out" of the cottage she was living in. John Lennon was asked to "contact her and make sure she came out more often to socialize." As a result, Lennon wrote the song "Dear Prudence." In the song Lennon asks Farrow to "open up your eyes" and "see the sunny skies" reminding her that she is "part of everything." The song was said to be "a simple plea to a friend to 'snap out of it.'" Lennon said later that "She'd been locked in for three weeks and was trying to reach God quicker than anyone else."
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