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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 7:49:04 GMT 1, I agree, this photo is far more interesting. Still, it's just Martha using others work for her own gain isn't it? or is it the documentation of art on the streets? This image has its own artistic merits. It shows a then obscure artist in the act of creating his art. That very much is documentation. Her most recent image is very different. It's a photo shoot staged in front of a mural which had already been documented by thousands of journalist and average people though traditional and social media. I don't see a staged photo shoot after the fact as documentation. Had the image been staged in a more interesting way (as Tristan did), it would have more artistic merit in my opinion. As it stands, I think it's a poor image regardless of who pushed the shutter button. I'm not trying to convince you that it's bad. If you like it, great. If you think it's in keeping and on par with her entire body of work, I would disagree.
I agree, this photo is far more interesting. Still, it's just Martha using others work for her own gain isn't it? or is it the documentation of art on the streets? This image has its own artistic merits. It shows a then obscure artist in the act of creating his art. That very much is documentation. Her most recent image is very different. It's a photo shoot staged in front of a mural which had already been documented by thousands of journalist and average people though traditional and social media. I don't see a staged photo shoot after the fact as documentation. Had the image been staged in a more interesting way (as Tristan did), it would have more artistic merit in my opinion. As it stands, I think it's a poor image regardless of who pushed the shutter button. I'm not trying to convince you that it's bad. If you like it, great. If you think it's in keeping and on par with her entire body of work, I would disagree. Martha doesn't do photo shoots |
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.dappy
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by .dappy on Mar 27, 2015 9:25:24 GMT 1,
... now this is funny! ...  
'Easy pass. As Banksy never posted this on banksy.co.uk'
Lunch Special
... now this is funny! ...
'Easy pass. As Banksy never posted this on banksy.co.uk' Lunch Special |
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Mr. Francesco on Mar 27, 2015 14:15:38 GMT 1, Interesting photo.
I'm a fan of Martha and her works, but this one for whatever reason, I'm not in love with it.
Interesting photo.
I'm a fan of Martha and her works, but this one for whatever reason, I'm not in love with it.
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randomname
Junior Member
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by randomname on Mar 27, 2015 14:43:46 GMT 1, This image has its own artistic merits. It shows a then obscure artist in the act of creating his art. That very much is documentation. Her most recent image is very different. It's a photo shoot staged in front of a mural which had already been documented by thousands of journalist and average people though traditional and social media. I don't see a staged photo shoot after the fact as documentation. Had the image been staged in a more interesting way (as Tristan did), it would have more artistic merit in my opinion. As it stands, I think it's a poor image regardless of who pushed the shutter button. I'm not trying to convince you that it's bad. If you like it, great. If you think it's in keeping and on par with her entire body of work, I would disagree. Martha doesn't do photo shoots
When you stage a shot and ask someone to pose for you, that's no longer photojournalism. At that point, it's a photo shoot.
I think she was trying to be conceptual with this shot, rather than capturing an organic moment as she normally does.
This image has its own artistic merits. It shows a then obscure artist in the act of creating his art. That very much is documentation. Her most recent image is very different. It's a photo shoot staged in front of a mural which had already been documented by thousands of journalist and average people though traditional and social media. I don't see a staged photo shoot after the fact as documentation. Had the image been staged in a more interesting way (as Tristan did), it would have more artistic merit in my opinion. As it stands, I think it's a poor image regardless of who pushed the shutter button. I'm not trying to convince you that it's bad. If you like it, great. If you think it's in keeping and on par with her entire body of work, I would disagree. Martha doesn't do photo shoots When you stage a shot and ask someone to pose for you, that's no longer photojournalism. At that point, it's a photo shoot. I think she was trying to be conceptual with this shot, rather than capturing an organic moment as she normally does. |
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randomname
Junior Member
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June 2013
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by randomname on Mar 27, 2015 15:18:38 GMT 1, When you stage a shot and ask someone to pose for you, that's no longer photojournalism. Even if Martha did stage the shoot, which she didn't - that's untrue.
Look at the photos above. Many include people posing in front of work. How is it different?
The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI.
Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art.
When you stage a shot and ask someone to pose for you, that's no longer photojournalism. Even if Martha did stage the shoot, which she didn't - that's untrue.
Look at the photos above. Many include people posing in front of work. How is it different?
The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art. |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 15:40:58 GMT 1, Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO.
Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO.
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randomname
Junior Member
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June 2013
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by randomname on Mar 27, 2015 15:54:14 GMT 1, The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art. The information I provided showed that a photographer with no affiliation to Martha, pulled up a sofa soaked with cat piss and got his mate to sit on it for a photo. Martha took a photo of it. It was you who speculated that Tristan was an assistant. So the 5 guys round the boom box by the wild-style wall weren't asked to pose?
To be fair to your point, neither of us can say to what degree she participated in the staging of the shot. What we can say is she took a photograph that was staged. As a result, it feels staged.
My point is she did not accurately document the scene. Her other shots feel true to the environment. If you turn the camera a little to the left or right, you're not going to see a snooty coffee shop on the corner.
BOTI was a spectacle. If you had no knowledge of what it was and had only this shot to explain it to you, you still would have no idea what it was. If she had shot the other photographer staging a photo while dozens of hipsters took photos on their cell phones, that would have documented what BOTI really was. It would have been more true to her body of work in my opinion. This feels like a missed opportunity.
The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art. The information I provided showed that a photographer with no affiliation to Martha, pulled up a sofa soaked with cat piss and got his mate to sit on it for a photo. Martha took a photo of it. It was you who speculated that Tristan was an assistant. So the 5 guys round the boom box by the wild-style wall weren't asked to pose? To be fair to your point, neither of us can say to what degree she participated in the staging of the shot. What we can say is she took a photograph that was staged. As a result, it feels staged. My point is she did not accurately document the scene. Her other shots feel true to the environment. If you turn the camera a little to the left or right, you're not going to see a snooty coffee shop on the corner. BOTI was a spectacle. If you had no knowledge of what it was and had only this shot to explain it to you, you still would have no idea what it was. If she had shot the other photographer staging a photo while dozens of hipsters took photos on their cell phones, that would have documented what BOTI really was. It would have been more true to her body of work in my opinion. This feels like a missed opportunity. |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 16:01:27 GMT 1, Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO.
I would agree. In 20 years will this photo has a similar impact to those above? Maybe. Lets see.
Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO.
I would agree. In 20 years will this photo has a similar impact to those above? Maybe. Lets see.
In 20 years, this will not be a highlight of her career. Some will disagree. It just doesn't have that certain je ne sais pas... |
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randomname
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June 2013
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by randomname on Mar 27, 2015 16:13:11 GMT 1, Yes, but who wants a bunch of hipsters on their print?
Whoever wants an accurate depiction of BOTI.
Personally, I think it would have made a statement of what the street art scene has become. It would have added to Banksy's message. He was poking fun at us as much as at himself with the kid creating street art off a silver platter.
Yes, but who wants a bunch of hipsters on their print? Whoever wants an accurate depiction of BOTI. Personally, I think it would have made a statement of what the street art scene has become. It would have added to Banksy's message. He was poking fun at us as much as at himself with the kid creating street art off a silver platter. |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 16:14:05 GMT 1, In 20 years, this will not be a highlight of her career. Some will disagree. It just doesn't have that certain je ne sais pas... I'm not for a second saying piece will be viewed as a highlight of her career. I'm asking, with age, will this photo and other photos being taken now gain the level of authenticity that 20 year old 'posed'/'staged' photos have?
In 20 years, this will not be a highlight of her career. Some will disagree. It just doesn't have that certain je ne sais pas... I'm not for a second saying piece will be viewed as a highlight of her career. I'm asking, with age, will this photo and other photos being taken now gain the level of authenticity that 20 year old 'posed'/'staged' photos have? No. Is it rude to say her career as peaked and she is now resting on her laurels? No disrespect, a girl's gotta eat and many, many artists are currently doing the same thing. Not hating, just being cynical. |
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Hairbland
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November 2010
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Hairbland on Mar 27, 2015 16:45:03 GMT 1, In 20 years, this will not be a highlight of her career. Some will disagree. It just doesn't have that certain je ne sais pas... I'm not for a second saying piece will be viewed as a highlight of her career. I'm asking, with age, will this photo and other photos being taken now gain the level of authenticity that 20 year old 'posed'/'staged' photos have?
Let's ask Eisenstaedt and Weegee, two photographers notorious for setting up their shots. Not that this image under discussion approaches their work.
Unless doing a Walker Evans subway type thing most of the best photographers have done this as a regular thing.
I'd name a few more but the list is endless. It's what they do.
Discussion should be about the final image, her "painting" of a sort, not about it being set up. At least within a discussion of art.
In 20 years, this will not be a highlight of her career. Some will disagree. It just doesn't have that certain je ne sais pas... I'm not for a second saying piece will be viewed as a highlight of her career. I'm asking, with age, will this photo and other photos being taken now gain the level of authenticity that 20 year old 'posed'/'staged' photos have? Let's ask Eisenstaedt and Weegee, two photographers notorious for setting up their shots. Not that this image under discussion approaches their work. Unless doing a Walker Evans subway type thing most of the best photographers have done this as a regular thing. I'd name a few more but the list is endless. It's what they do. Discussion should be about the final image, her "painting" of a sort, not about it being set up. At least within a discussion of art. |
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mmmike
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by mmmike on Mar 27, 2015 22:28:56 GMT 1, Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO.
Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO. You are a luddite. |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 23:04:44 GMT 1, yes stuttering mike, I am.
yes stuttering mike, I am.
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lucky7
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 15:13:00 GMT 1, Even if Martha did stage the shoot, which she didn't - that's untrue.
Look at the photos above. Many include people posing in front of work. How is it different?
The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art.
Even if Martha did stage the shoot, which she didn't - that's untrue.
Look at the photos above. Many include people posing in front of work. How is it different?
The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art. But she didn't, and sorry but you're wrong. |
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randomname
Junior Member
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June 2013
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by randomname on Mar 28, 2015 16:03:57 GMT 1, The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art. But she didn't, and sorry but you're wrong.
You're either not reading what I wrote, or not comprehending it. Ling posted an Instagram of a photographer stating he staged the shot. He staged other shots with the mural as well. Regardless of how involved she was with the staging of the shot, she still took a staged photograph and it shows.
The word that comes up over and over with Martha Cooper is documentation. This shot is not very good documentation of BOTI. It captures none of the spectacle or true nature of what occurred.
Like I've said a few times already, had she shot the other photographer staging a shoot while dozens of hipsters took snapshots on their cell phones, she would have done a much better job of documenting BOTI. The crowds of fans, some of which couldn't even pronounce Banksy, were as much a part of the art as the art itself. She missed an opportunity to document that.
The information you provided suggests otherwise. Considering she shot the same person as the photographer who staged it, there was some level of collaboration going on. It would have been more interesting if she had shot the photographer staging the shot, rather participated in its staging. That would have captured some of the spectacle of BOTI. Her other shots feel organic. This one feels like she manipulated the environment to make a selective and forced statement about (or along with) the art. But she didn't, and sorry but you're wrong. You're either not reading what I wrote, or not comprehending it. Ling posted an Instagram of a photographer stating he staged the shot. He staged other shots with the mural as well. Regardless of how involved she was with the staging of the shot, she still took a staged photograph and it shows. The word that comes up over and over with Martha Cooper is documentation. This shot is not very good documentation of BOTI. It captures none of the spectacle or true nature of what occurred. Like I've said a few times already, had she shot the other photographer staging a shoot while dozens of hipsters took snapshots on their cell phones, she would have done a much better job of documenting BOTI. The crowds of fans, some of which couldn't even pronounce Banksy, were as much a part of the art as the art itself. She missed an opportunity to document that. |
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Petrusino
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Petrusino on Mar 28, 2015 18:34:56 GMT 1, Noticed this on the one still up, not sure if that applies to whole edition of 75 - great if it does! Shipped the day after the vernissage of the expo in Gaeta 30March. With the artwork you receive the Catalog of the Italian Exposition and with and unsigned poster of the exposition with keith haring
Noticed this on the one still up, not sure if that applies to whole edition of 75 - great if it does! Shipped the day after the vernissage of the expo in Gaeta 30March. With the artwork you receive the Catalog of the Italian Exposition and with and unsigned poster of the exposition with keith haring I'm not sure about the poster, but I had read about the catalogue as gift with every G4L purchased. They have posted a picture of the catalogue on FB and It seems really cool! |
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nighthawk
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by nighthawk on Mar 28, 2015 19:00:15 GMT 1, OMG people! It's a 100 buck photograph, by one hell of a photographer, capturing part of a historic street art event. Really not worth the headache of debate(s), that seem to have erupted from it. If you liked it, you bought it. If you didn't, you passed. Maybe put your time and energy into debating something a little more worthwhile at this point?
Or carry on about how Martha Cooper:
a) is not an artist at all
b) is a superstar photographer
c) is only in it for the money
d) has peaked, and should just call it a day
e) all of the above
Petrusino that catalogue looks rad mate. Where can I get one?
OMG people! It's a 100 buck photograph, by one hell of a photographer, capturing part of a historic street art event. Really not worth the headache of debate(s), that seem to have erupted from it. If you liked it, you bought it. If you didn't, you passed. Maybe put your time and energy into debating something a little more worthwhile at this point? Or carry on about how Martha Cooper: a) is not an artist at all b) is a superstar photographer c) is only in it for the money d) has peaked, and should just call it a day e) all of the above Petrusino that catalogue looks rad mate. Where can I get one? |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 19:03:37 GMT 1, "Damn all of your damn opinions!
Shut up and buy or move on. Thanks."
-nighthawk
"Damn all of your damn opinions!
Shut up and buy or move on. Thanks."
-nighthawk
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nighthawk
Junior Member
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February 2013
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by nighthawk on Mar 28, 2015 19:06:28 GMT 1, Naaah, I'm up for a good debate...to a point 
Naaah, I'm up for a good debate...to a point |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 19:09:07 GMT 1, Naaah, I'm up for a good debate...to a point
Naaah, I'm up for a good debate...to a point And your threshold should be everyone's threshold, right? I understand, my wife is the same way sometimes. |
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Petrusino
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November 2011
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Petrusino on Mar 28, 2015 19:09:40 GMT 1, nighthawk, if you bought the photo you will also receive the catalog, otherwise, I do not know if the catalog will be officially on sale, try to contact the gallery to this address "buy@streetartplace.com", they seem to be friendly people.
nighthawk, if you bought the photo you will also receive the catalog, otherwise, I do not know if the catalog will be officially on sale, try to contact the gallery to this address "buy@streetartplace.com", they seem to be friendly people.
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nighthawk
Junior Member
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February 2013
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by nighthawk on Mar 28, 2015 19:11:23 GMT 1, Thanks Petrusino, i did! Excited to see these
Thanks Petrusino, i did! Excited to see these |
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.dappy
Full Member
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December 2010
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by .dappy on Mar 28, 2015 19:15:23 GMT 1, Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO.
... I think the only reason @shadynasty is upset and does not like Martha Cooper and therefore putting forward gormless arguments, is because she used the wrong type of 'film' and has entered the modern age ... while he obviously hasn't ...*
*runs away with tin hat on and watches from afar - another dozen pages trying to dis a fab photo from a legend 
Maybe it is the nature of digital photography, which I am assuming Martha used for the Skeelo shot. The other shots have a depth, warmth and beauty to them that her most recent shot does not. I attribute this to the type of photograph. I still use traditional film over digital for a variety of reasons. Call me a luddite, but 35mm has a life that digital does not (in most cases.) IMO. ... I think the only reason @shadynasty is upset and does not like Martha Cooper and therefore putting forward gormless arguments, is because she used the wrong type of 'film' and has entered the modern age ... while he obviously hasn't ...* *runs away with tin hat on and watches from afar - another dozen pages trying to dis a fab photo from a legend |
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Deleted
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 19:26:13 GMT 1, My Apple II won't let me like your comment Dappy, otherwise I would. Damn this newfangled BASIC operating system...
My Apple II won't let me like your comment Dappy, otherwise I would. Damn this newfangled BASIC operating system...
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lha
Junior Member
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August 2009
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by lha on Mar 29, 2015 10:25:29 GMT 1, Noticed this on the one still up, not sure if that applies to whole edition of 75 - great if it does! Shipped the day after the vernissage of the expo in Gaeta 30March. With the artwork you receive the Catalog of the Italian Exposition and with and unsigned poster of the exposition with keith haring I'm not sure about the poster, but I had read about the catalogue as gift with every G4L purchased. Theyย have posted a picture of the catalogue on FB and It seems really cool!
Great stuff, thanks confirming for the info about the catalogue petrusino, makes the print even more of a bargain!
Noticed this on the one still up, not sure if that applies to whole edition of 75 - great if it does! Shipped the day after the vernissage of the expo in Gaeta 30March. With the artwork you receive the Catalog of the Italian Exposition and with and unsigned poster of the exposition with keith haring I'm not sure about the poster, but I had read about the catalogue as gift with every G4L purchased. Theyย have posted a picture of the catalogue on FB and It seems really cool! Great stuff, thanks confirming for the info about the catalogue petrusino, makes the print even more of a bargain! |
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lha
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,605
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August 2009
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by lha on Apr 1, 2015 20:29:44 GMT 1, For those that purchased, I was told mine was sent today and should be with me tomorrow.
Are you UK based Ling?
For those that purchased, I was told mine was sent today and should be with me tomorrow. Are you UK based Ling? |
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lha
Junior Member
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August 2009
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Martha Cooper ๐บ๐ธ Subway Art Book โข New York Graffiti , by lha on Apr 1, 2015 20:36:32 GMT 1,
Great stuff, thanks for the info. Looking forward to getting the print and catalogue
Great stuff, thanks for the info. Looking forward to getting the print and catalogue |
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