[timmyup]

I can’t believe how low the forum prices are!

[annar50]

People dont waste my time and your time with stupid offers that you clearly not going to get it for

[gripin]

Our "friend" with the fake Invader Scream print is on the chase for a victim again.
This time the print is listed on an italian auction house:

aste-gregorys.bidinside.com/it/lot/19846/invader-francia-1969-invaded-/

The provenience is named by Lazarides   - any thoughts?

[gripin]

will do today or tomorrow. 
but first get some feedback here, before we drive the auction house crazy.

[Swiss Alan]

Nov 10, 2024 10:05:17 GMT 1 gripin said:

will do today or tomorrow. 
but first get some feedback here, before we drive the auction house crazy.

Why would they not list provenance as Laz?  That’s where I bought mine from and the receipt etc from Laz.  Maybe that’s what they are referencing 

[Lroy]

Nov 10, 2024 21:54:02 GMT 1 Swiss Alan said:

Nov 10, 2024 10:05:17 GMT 1 gripin said:

will do today or tomorrow. 
but first get some feedback here, before we drive the auction house crazy.

Why would they not list provenance as Laz?  That’s where I bought mine from and the receipt etc from Laz.  Maybe that’s what they are referencing 

Me too for Hypnosis 

[gripin]

Nov 10, 2024 23:41:43 GMT 1 Lroy said:

Nov 10, 2024 21:54:02 GMT 1 Swiss Alan said:

Why would they not list provenance as Laz?  That’s where I bought mine from and the receipt etc from Laz.  Maybe that’s what they are referencing 

Me too for Hypnosis 

I refer to our discussion from page 18-20 - it's obviously the same print.

[Alfonzo Conzeta]

Nov 11, 2024 5:55:01 GMT 1 gripin said:

Nov 10, 2024 23:41:43 GMT 1 Lroy said:

Me too for Hypnosis 

I refer to our discussion from page 18-20 - it's obviously the same print.

for me it is obvious that the ratio of the embossing stamp to the black lines of the print does not match (left bottom)

[gripin]

Nov 11, 2024 11:36:44 GMT 1 Alfonzo Conzeta said:

Nov 11, 2024 5:55:01 GMT 1 gripin said:

I refer to our discussion from page 18-20 - it's obviously the same print.

for me it is obvious that the ratio of the embossing stamp to the black lines of the print does not match (left bottom)

that was the main argument for the fake thesis back in february…

[gripin]

i got a reply from the auction house.

"We have noted your comments, but in our opinion, the discrepancies mentioned on the website are not evident when compared with the original work. Specifically, we do not find the Lazarides embossed stamp to be of a non-compliant size, and I would like to point out that the "color splatter" on the mark is also present on the embossed stamp. Additionally, we do not believe the embossed stamp has any differing characteristics from those seen in works that are deemed authentic within the forum.

Furthermore, please note that the artwork is accompanied by proof of purchase from the Lazarides Gallery in London."

they sent me some pics ans a receipt.
i'm still not convinced, what do you think?
(from the composing - the top one is the one from the auction, the two lower ones are original photographs from invader exhibitions)

[Someone Like You]

Be very very careful, they have faked several of these and also of Invader Alert

[Wanchope]

What colour splatter are they referring to? There’s no colour splatt on the print right?

[drbf]

Nov 11, 2024 19:31:13 GMT 1 gripin said:

i got a reply from the auction house.

"We have noted your comments, but in our opinion, the discrepancies mentioned on the website are not evident when compared with the original work. Specifically, we do not find the Lazarides embossed stamp to be of a non-compliant size, and I would like to point out that the "color splatter" on the mark is also present on the embossed stamp. Additionally, we do not believe the embossed stamp has any differing characteristics from those seen in works that are deemed authentic within the forum.

Furthermore, please note that the artwork is accompanied by proof of purchase from the Lazarides Gallery in London."

they sent me some pics ans a receipt.
i'm still not convinced, what do you think?
(from the composing - the top one is the one from the auction, the two lower ones are original photographs from invader exhibitions)

Does Laz usually put the edition number on his receipts?

[ck1]

How can they use this to press their case?  They lined up the left only to see the right side completely prove this is not a true Laz stamp?  

[u%hdjfka c]

[SFBM]

Nov 12, 2024 1:29:44 GMT 1 drbf said:

Nov 11, 2024 19:31:13 GMT 1 gripin said:

i got a reply from the auction house.

"We have noted your comments, but in our opinion, the discrepancies mentioned on the website are not evident when compared with the original work. Specifically, we do not find the Lazarides embossed stamp to be of a non-compliant size, and I would like to point out that the "color splatter" on the mark is also present on the embossed stamp. Additionally, we do not believe the embossed stamp has any differing characteristics from those seen in works that are deemed authentic within the forum.

Furthermore, please note that the artwork is accompanied by proof of purchase from the Lazarides Gallery in London."

they sent me some pics ans a receipt.
i'm still not convinced, what do you think?
(from the composing - the top one is the one from the auction, the two lower ones are original photographs from invader exhibitions)

Does Laz usually put the edition number on his receipts?

Wasn’t still called Outsiders gallery in 2011?

[met]

Nov 10, 2024 9:00:06 GMT 1 gripin said:

Our "friend" with the fake Invader Scream print is on the chase for a victim again.
This time the print is listed on an italian auction house:

aste-gregorys.bidinside.com/it/lot/19846/invader-francia-1969-invaded-/

The provenience is named by Lazarides   - any thoughts?

Nov 11, 2024 5:55:01 GMT 1 gripin said:

Nov 10, 2024 23:41:43 GMT 1 Lroy said:

Nov 10, 2024 21:54:02 GMT 1 Swiss Alan said:

Why would they not list provenance as Laz?  That’s where I bought mine from and the receipt etc from Laz.  Maybe that’s what they are referencing

Me too for Hypnosis

I refer to our discussion from page 18-20 - it's obviously the same print.

Nov 11, 2024 19:31:13 GMT 1 gripin said:

i got a reply from the auction house.

"We have noted your comments, but in our opinion, the discrepancies mentioned on the website are not evident when compared with the original work. Specifically, we do not find the Lazarides embossed stamp to be of a non-compliant size, and I would like to point out that the "color splatter" on the mark is also present on the embossed stamp. Additionally, we do not believe the embossed stamp has any differing characteristics from those seen in works that are deemed authentic within the forum.

Furthermore, please note that the artwork is accompanied by proof of purchase from the Lazarides Gallery in London."

they sent me some pics ans a receipt.
i'm still not convinced, what do you think?
(from the composing - the top one is the one from the auction, the two lower ones are original photographs from invader exhibitions)

Thank you for the helpful warning and follow‑up information, gripin.

I had never previously heard of Gregory's Auction House Bologna.

aste-gregorys.bidinside.com/it/lot/19846/invader-francia-1969-invaded-/



1.  Like you've mentioned, this print numbered 26/50 is the same counterfeit Invaded Scream that was listed on eBay in February 2024* by the scammer entity, CharityStars*.

It is worth adding that CharityStars used to be a member of this message board. But they deleted all of their posts after their dodgy actions were challenged by others here.



2.  The eBay sale by CharityStars in February either:

(a)  completed, and the new owner (perhaps after realising they foolishly bought a counterfeit Invader) decided to quickly resell by consigning with Gregory's; or

(b)  failed to complete, and the original seller found replacement dupes (or co‑conspirators) at Gregory's.



3.  Somewhat trivial, but it seems as if the Gregory's consignor may have failed to disclose to them the full provenance of their print — focusing solely on the Lazarides Gallery name/reputation, and omitting any reference to the apparent eBay sale just nine months ago.

At the very least, that would be highly misleading.

One would think such a lack of transparency would raise a few eyebrows at Gregory's, calling into question the honesty and integrity of their consignor.



4.  Inherent to the nature of woodcut printmaking is that each print from the same edition will have minor differences.

However, when closely examined, the eBay CharityStars / Gregory's fake Invader has implausibly-too-numerous similarities in detail with a print that was resold by Christie's on 28 September 2023.

To produce their fake print numbered 26/50, I suspect the counterfeiter used as their source image the Christie's high‑res jpg of the authentic print numbered 6/50:

onlineonly.christies.com/s/contemporary-edition/invader-b-1969-102/191043



5.  Although reasonably well‑executed, the Gregory's fake print is also an obvious counterfeit for those who know what to look for.



6.  The most glaring tell (and the simplest one to illustrate) is the incorrectly‑sized Lazarides blindstamp.

This was highlighted very effectively by the attachment in your last post. As also referred to by you, the issue was discussed in some detail back in February, including by cemltz* and myself*.



7.  Besides the blindstamp, there are multiple other tells that point to the Gregory's print being a counterfeit.

I'll refrain from highlighting each one, because this would only serve to better educate the fraudsters who access the forum.

Still, the blindstamp alone is already our smoking gun.

It is, in and of itself, all the evidence we need of fakery. As soon as we spotted that blindstamp was the wrong size, it was, "Case closed". There ceased to be any need for us to further investigate the matter.



8.  Notwithstanding point 7 above and purely for argument's sake, let's consider the comments raised by Gregory's:


8.1  "Specifically, we do not find the Lazarides embossed stamp to be of a non‑compliant size,"


I am unaware of what exactly Gregory's was looking at. But if they did see your attachment (comparing their fake print numbered 26/50 with the two genuine prints just underneath — numbered 43/50 and artist's proof X), then Gregory's are simply being ridiculous and disingenuous.

Since the fake blindstamp is about 20% wider than it should be (most noticeable when the proportions are compared to reference points on the printed image), the size discrepancy is significant. This would be evident to any layperson with a working pair of eyes, let alone to an art professional:



Fake Gregory's print 26/50 (top) vs Genuine print 43/50 and Genuine A/P X (below)



8.2  "and I would like to point out that the "color splatter" on the mark is also present on the embossed stamp. Additionally, we do not believe the embossed stamp has any differing characteristics from those seen in works that are deemed authentic within the forum."


Given point 8.1 (and point 6) above, the presence of a paint‑splatter design on the blindstamp of Gregory's fake print, along with any other similarities to a genuine blindstamp, are irrelevant.

Nevertheless, I would still suggest that Gregory's check once again the blindstamp on its fake print. Especially the shape and length of the paint‑splatter design at the base of the letter 'L'. They should then compare that shape and length to an authentic blindstamp, like the one for A/P X.

In the side-by-side comparison below, note that the blindstamp on the Gregory's print (left) was applied with force, resulting in a very clean and well‑defined embossing. Yet despite this, much of the paint‑splatter design is still missing to the left of the letter 'L'. Whereas it is clearly visible on the genuine blindstamp for A/P X (right):



Fake Gregory's print 26/50 (left) vs Genuine A/P X (right)



8.3  "Furthermore, please note that the artwork is accompanied by proof of purchase from the Lazarides Gallery in London."


Out of curiosity, do we know whether the "proof of purchase" mentioned is just an image of the receipt, or if it is a hardcopy receipt?

If merely a jpg or pdf, that is hardly reassuring. A photo or scan of a genuine receipt could still be reproduced countless times, and misused to offer an air of legitimacy to an equally countless number of fakes.

In case Gregory's actually has a hardcopy receipt, this too could be forged (we have, for example, seen all‑too‑many fake receipts for purported "Banksy" items claimed to have been acquired from the Walled Off Hotel).

And even if the hardcopy receipt were genuine, a scammer could easily separate it from its corresponding authentic print, to misuse the receipt as false provenance for a fake print instead.

Whatever the situation may be, Gregory's proof of purchase argument is inconclusive, thus unpersuasive. And (once again for emphasis) irrelevant, given the issue with the blindstamp.



9.  The key unanswered question for me is whether Gregory's Auction House Bologna is acting in:

(a)  good faith or

(b)  bad faith.


In other words, is Gregory's just a bit clueless, at least when it comes to Invader prints and the prevalance of counterfeits that exist in the Invader market? They may be honest, yet too credulous, with their collective judgement perhaps also impaired by wishful thinking, greed, confirmation bias, and/or self‑delusion.


Or, alternatively, query whether Gregory's might be dishonest, cavalier when it comes to authenticity, and willing to turn a blind eye every now and then, provided:

(i) they can rely on plausible deniability ("Trust us, guv. We didn't know it was fake. The consignor showed us a receipt!"); and

(ii) the relevant consignment is by an important‑enough client, who may bring in attractive commissions on a regular basis.



10.  A best‑case scenario would be that the staff at Gregory's is innocent, but ignorant and possibly incompetent.


In fairness, it is not their fault if they've had little or no experience with prints by Invader.


That said, any reputable auction house should know how a woodcut is made, and the fact it is a relief printmaking technique. The process results in a textured print, an uneven surface (with areas that are embossed or debossed), visible particularly in raking light.

If Gregory's can be bothered to re‑examine Lot 35 more carefully, what they will probably discover is that their print's surface is flat, i.e. not a woodcut.


Moreover, any auction house should have access to a regular magnifying glass.

Zooming in on the images of Lot 35 from Gregory's own website, I see no evidence of actual relief printing inks having been used — including the texture of the ink‑dispersion (within the printed areas) that one could reasonably expect from a woodcut.

When looking at the Gregory's images up‑close, all I see is what appears to be an inkjet/digital print:



Fake Gregory's print 26/50 (left) vs Genuine Christie's print 6/50 (right)



11.  My general takeaway:

If, despite the clear warnings expressly provided to them, Gregory's Auction House Bologna chooses to double down by continuing with the sale of their fake Invader print, then from hereon they can be dismissed as a Mickey Mouse operation.



12.  As a tangental aside, I have in my time come across a fair number of art‑world professionals — holding titles like "specialist" or "director", getting paid to do their jobs, having worked full‑time at those jobs for years.

And it never ceases to surprise me when I sense that some of these individuals are corrupt, or even less informed than a hobby enthusiast like myself.


One day, when I'm old enough to no longer have any qualms about being gratuitously offensive, I might just say to them:

"You know the impostor syndrome we sometimes feel while lying in bed at night. Well, in your case, I believe that feeling is completely justified."

[Alfonzo Conzeta]

just recognized, that the Lot 35 "Invaded Scream" is no longer part of the auction...

[Alfonzo Conzeta]

I assume Gregory`s realizes now that there are considerable doubts

[gripin]

they must have followed the thread here and after met's detailed and glorious essay, they got cold feet and removed the part after all.

let's keep our eyes open.

cheers 🖖

[radnatic]

Does this one look legit to you?

www.ebay.de/itm/116416545339

[Beebo]

No.

Scroll up and look at the analysis of the blind stamps of real vs. fake. And then look at the eBay listing. Not even close.

I love eBay for a lot of things. Buying $6K easily faked artwork from people I do not know is not one of those things. 

[Lroy]

Dec 11, 2024 11:49:58 GMT 1 radnatic said:

Does this one look legit to you?

www.ebay.de/itm/116416545339

Nope. Paper is too white.
anyway what I don’t understand is why the seller let his number edition. Weird 

[met]

Nov 10, 2024 9:00:06 GMT 1 gripin said:

Our "friend" with the fake Invader Scream print is on the chase for a victim again.
This time the print is listed on an italian auction house:

aste-gregorys.bidinside.com/it/lot/19846/invader-francia-1969-invaded-/

The provenience is named by Lazarides   - any thoughts?

Nov 14, 2024 14:00:14 GMT 1 Alfonzo Conzeta said:

just recognized, that the Lot 35 "Invaded Scream" is no longer part of the auction...

Nov 14, 2024 14:02:49 GMT 1 Alfonzo Conzeta said:

I assume Gregory`s realizes now that there are considerable doubts

Nov 15, 2024 10:17:02 GMT 1 gripin said:

they must have followed the thread here and after met's detailed and glorious essay, they got cold feet and removed the part after all.

let's keep our eyes open.

cheers 🖖

To close the circle and add a definitive bow to it, Orbi from the Invader team later confirmed to me that Lot 35 from the 14 November 2024 sale at Gregory's Auction House Bologna was indeed a fake Invaded Scream print.

Thanks again for flagging this counterfeit, gripin.

[Alfonzo Conzeta]

Dec 11, 2024 11:49:58 GMT 1 radnatic said:

Does this one look legit to you?

www.ebay.de/itm/116416545339

and... another terrible FAKE!

[gripin]

and here we go with the sibling “hypnosis", listed by the same seller:

www.ebay.de/itm/116416555430?itmmeta=01JFDB9PA2S2YJHB60REM5RASY&hash=item1b1af7a9a6:g:OHYAAOSwgLhnWDEE

[Str33t Art Collector]

I compared it also with some pics of an AP print and found at the firs look a "big" difference. I don´t think this one is genuine..

[Alfonzo Conzeta]

have just a look on the blind stamp...  it is made so poor! 
STAY AWAY from this FAKE!

[gripin]

aaaaand... the're gone - both "scream" and "hypnosis" has been removed by the seller.

[iamzero]

Interesting thread to see having not been on here for a while. Looks like the market is down massively and I’m guessing not likely to pick up anytime soon with the state the U.K. economy is heading. I have one of these from release and am considering an exit route with some artwork but looks like I’ll need to hang on to it and pray for a recovery.