artlife11
New Member
Posts โข 371
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January 2020
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by artlife11 on Apr 28, 2021 16:43:27 GMT 1, I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold.
They think itโs all over.....,,,,
I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold. They think itโs all over.....,,,,
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ollie288
New Member
Posts โข 40
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September 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by ollie288 on Apr 28, 2021 16:46:15 GMT 1, Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...๐คฃ๐คฃ Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty
A big catalog, but the same auction house and auction category / catalog to when Bonhams sold multiple Banksys prints at all time highs 1-2 months ago...
Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...๐คฃ๐คฃ Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty A big catalog, but the same auction house and auction category / catalog to when Bonhams sold multiple Banksys prints at all time highs 1-2 months ago...
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 16:49:44 GMT 1, And around and around we go again
1. Its Bonhams
2. too many banksy sales in too short a time, supply and demand
3. anyone that has bought < 2020 is still smiling
4. This has happened before
5. It's boring
6. No one really knows
7. Even me
And around and around we go again
1. Its Bonhams
2. too many banksy sales in too short a time, supply and demand
3. anyone that has bought < 2020 is still smiling
4. This has happened before
5. It's boring
6. No one really knows
7. Even me
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LJCal
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December 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by LJCal on Apr 28, 2021 16:49:55 GMT 1, I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold. They think itโs all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.
I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold. They think itโs all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.
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Arty Farty 15
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January 2018
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Arty Farty 15 on Apr 28, 2021 16:51:57 GMT 1, Terrible auction all round - even the signed Picassoโs and Hockneys shifting for sub ยฃ5k all in!
Terrible auction all round - even the signed Picassoโs and Hockneys shifting for sub ยฃ5k all in!
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JFCC
New Member
Posts โข 390
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May 2020
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by JFCC on Apr 28, 2021 16:52:29 GMT 1, No not at all..there has been fairly universal criticism of Bonhams on this board over the last year.
They seem to have lost their way selling poor quality prints and ambiguous condition reports in dull and confused catalogues. They've always been somewhere to buy and never to sell at!
It's not a panic moment but a changing of the ownership profile that is exacerbated by over supply!
No not at all..there has been fairly universal criticism of Bonhams on this board over the last year.
They seem to have lost their way selling poor quality prints and ambiguous condition reports in dull and confused catalogues. They've always been somewhere to buy and never to sell at!
It's not a panic moment but a changing of the ownership profile that is exacerbated by over supply!
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,802
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August 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Lazarus II on Apr 28, 2021 16:55:23 GMT 1, I'll feel better using my British Museum beermat for that very purpose once more.
I'll feel better using my British Museum beermat for that very purpose once more.
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,802
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August 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Lazarus II on Apr 28, 2021 16:56:08 GMT 1, Anyone privy to reasons why lots 154 and 157 were withdrawn? maybe the owner had the same thoughts as your goodself ?
Anyone privy to reasons why lots 154 and 157 were withdrawn? maybe the owner had the same thoughts as your goodself ?
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LJCal
Junior Member
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December 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by LJCal on Apr 28, 2021 17:19:40 GMT 1, In fairness this is an awful auction, lots of decent prints not selling or going cheap.
In fairness this is an awful auction, lots of decent prints not selling or going cheap.
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tab1
Full Member
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Posts โข 8,519
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September 2011
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by tab1 on Apr 28, 2021 17:24:30 GMT 1, They think itโs all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.ย
This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows?
They think itโs all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.ย This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows?
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LJCal
Junior Member
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Posts โข 2,843
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December 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by LJCal on Apr 28, 2021 17:33:55 GMT 1, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year. This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.
TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year. This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.
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Reader
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,229
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June 2016
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Reader on Apr 28, 2021 17:35:16 GMT 1, Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...๐คฃ๐คฃ Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty Do you know how many times we've heard that over the last 15 years, I first heard it when Grin Reaper was released at primary for ยฃ400 :-)
Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...๐คฃ๐คฃ Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty Do you know how many times we've heard that over the last 15 years, I first heard it when Grin Reaper was released at primary for ยฃ400 :-)
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Jonas B
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,477
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February 2021
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Jonas B on Apr 28, 2021 17:41:46 GMT 1, Someone mentioned auctions being curated. No way this was curated.
Someone mentioned auctions being curated. No way this was curated.
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Charlie Bronson
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,439
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February 2014
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Charlie Bronson on Apr 28, 2021 17:44:07 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
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Argiebaji
Junior Member
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June 2008
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Argiebaji on Apr 28, 2021 17:46:59 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
Agreed. Time to "Hold" people's.
Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. Agreed. Time to "Hold" people's.
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Gunny
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,582
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July 2012
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Gunny on Apr 28, 2021 17:47:45 GMT 1, 18 Months ago, most unsigned prints were 8-20k.................. still massively up on those times so i wouldn't be too worried if i were most people. Although, i must admit it would have been a good move to be selling last summer, might take a while to get back to that............
18 Months ago, most unsigned prints were 8-20k.................. still massively up on those times so i wouldn't be too worried if i were most people. Although, i must admit it would have been a good move to be selling last summer, might take a while to get back to that............
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Dexter Bulldog
Junior Member
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July 2013
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Dexter Bulldog on Apr 28, 2021 17:47:46 GMT 1, hirst valium is a $35k print now? i remember these being about 1/3 the price a few years ago
hirst valium is a $35k print now? i remember these being about 1/3 the price a few years ago
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orchid
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,458
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May 2018
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by orchid on Apr 28, 2021 17:50:21 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
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Nuno
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,095
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November 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Nuno on Apr 28, 2021 17:51:16 GMT 1, This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.ย
Again, this has all been said for years. โUnsigned prints will be worthlessโ, โitโs a bubbleโ, โwhat if Banksy is Neil Buchananโ.
If youโve bought a print as an investment, long term i believe it will prove to be a decent decision - each auction result just becomes noise. itโs the long term trends that are important.
If youโve bought prints to enjoy daily then youโre already winning.
*Not investment advice*
This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.ย Again, this has all been said for years. โUnsigned prints will be worthlessโ, โitโs a bubbleโ, โwhat if Banksy is Neil Buchananโ. If youโve bought a print as an investment, long term i believe it will prove to be a decent decision - each auction result just becomes noise. itโs the long term trends that are important. If youโve bought prints to enjoy daily then youโre already winning. *Not investment advice*
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 17:52:49 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
This.
Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. This.
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Charlie Bronson
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,439
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February 2014
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Charlie Bronson on Apr 28, 2021 17:53:40 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
Whoโs talking about unsigned memorabilia? I donโt buy into that garbage. Iโm talking about his prints.
Nothing is tanking and B will never โtankโ. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ainโt happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work wonโt allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. Whoโs talking about unsigned memorabilia? I donโt buy into that garbage. Iโm talking about his prints.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 17:57:22 GMT 1, 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. Whoโs talking about unsigned memorabilia? I donโt buy into that garbage. Iโm talking about his prints.
He means unsigned prints.
Letโs face it , if you spent ยฃ40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to ยฃ40k, probably but we are talking years.
30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. Whoโs talking about unsigned memorabilia? I donโt buy into that garbage. Iโm talking about his prints. He means unsigned prints. Letโs face it , if you spent ยฃ40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to ยฃ40k, probably but we are talking years.
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Charlie Bronson
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,439
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February 2014
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Charlie Bronson on Apr 28, 2021 18:00:52 GMT 1, Whoโs talking about unsigned memorabilia? I donโt buy into that garbage. Iโm talking about his prints. He means unsigned prints. Letโs face it , if you spent ยฃ40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to ยฃ40k, probably but we are talking years.
Got it. Official prints are hardly memorabilia, signed or not. Imho the B investment game is a marathon, not a sprint. An auction, or several, with bad results, isnโt indicative of the long term ROI imho.
Whoโs talking about unsigned memorabilia? I donโt buy into that garbage. Iโm talking about his prints. He means unsigned prints. Letโs face it , if you spent ยฃ40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to ยฃ40k, probably but we are talking years. Got it. Official prints are hardly memorabilia, signed or not. Imho the B investment game is a marathon, not a sprint. An auction, or several, with bad results, isnโt indicative of the long term ROI imho.
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orchid
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,458
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May 2018
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by orchid on Apr 28, 2021 18:38:53 GMT 1, Just two pages? We'd be on to 22 pages if it was a record breaker. *Tumble weeds*
Just two pages? We'd be on to 22 pages if it was a record breaker. *Tumble weeds*
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by John The Badgers on Apr 28, 2021 18:41:20 GMT 1, Cant for the life of me fathom the Bonham's site, can someone list the results?
Cant for the life of me fathom the Bonham's site, can someone list the results?
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fusion0001
New Member
Posts โข 146
Likes โข 415
November 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by fusion0001 on Apr 28, 2021 18:43:34 GMT 1, I updated overall numbers and all-in results on banksy-value. Overall market this month is down around 10%, while unsigned a bit more than 20%. Not a great day to be holding lots of unsigned.
I rarely comment the value discussion here more subjectively, but my 2 cents is that there is really not much difference in long-term return between holding signed and unsigned prints of same edition. The value of signed vs unsigned of same edition have since forever been between linked by 2.0x - 2.5x multiple and I hardly see a reason for this multiple to be broken. Over the short-term however we have seen in 2020 the multiple go down to 1.5x and I think everyone who has looked at the market for long enough had a good gut-feeling that this will correct back eventually, which is happening now with the overall market correction in parallel. Getting back to a historical ratio of closer to 2.0-2.5 would not be surprising (run-of-the-mill signed prints at 50-60k and unsigned of same edition at 20-25k).
The above of course does not hold for the more "special" pieces that are more disconnected from the rest of the market and hence more resilient to these kind of situations.
I updated overall numbers and all-in results on banksy-value. Overall market this month is down around 10%, while unsigned a bit more than 20%. Not a great day to be holding lots of unsigned.
I rarely comment the value discussion here more subjectively, but my 2 cents is that there is really not much difference in long-term return between holding signed and unsigned prints of same edition. The value of signed vs unsigned of same edition have since forever been between linked by 2.0x - 2.5x multiple and I hardly see a reason for this multiple to be broken. Over the short-term however we have seen in 2020 the multiple go down to 1.5x and I think everyone who has looked at the market for long enough had a good gut-feeling that this will correct back eventually, which is happening now with the overall market correction in parallel. Getting back to a historical ratio of closer to 2.0-2.5 would not be surprising (run-of-the-mill signed prints at 50-60k and unsigned of same edition at 20-25k).
The above of course does not hold for the more "special" pieces that are more disconnected from the rest of the market and hence more resilient to these kind of situations.
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by John The Badgers on Apr 28, 2021 18:53:22 GMT 1, Thank you fusion0001.
Appreciate the comments.
Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean?
Thank you fusion0001.
Appreciate the comments.
Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean?
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als33
New Member
Posts โข 70
Likes โข 82
March 2011
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by als33 on Apr 28, 2021 19:00:07 GMT 1, Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means the reserve wasn't met and the item didn't sell.
Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means the reserve wasn't met and the item didn't sell.
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startimeash
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,277
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March 2019
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by startimeash on Apr 28, 2021 19:00:37 GMT 1, Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means that the seller had specified a minimum price that they'd accept, which is the reserve. If the bids don't make it to that level then it is not sold, so "passed"
Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means that the seller had specified a minimum price that they'd accept, which is the reserve. If the bids don't make it to that level then it is not sold, so "passed"
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by John The Badgers on Apr 28, 2021 19:08:20 GMT 1, Thanks Als33 and startimeash, didn't realise you could specify a 'minimum value' at auction.
I tried to follow the auction as I was interested in the TW. I have one, and wanted an idea for my insurance as I have to specify value on the policy.
Can anyone tell me what it got too via the bidding?
Thanks Als33 and startimeash, didn't realise you could specify a 'minimum value' at auction.
I tried to follow the auction as I was interested in the TW. I have one, and wanted an idea for my insurance as I have to specify value on the policy.
Can anyone tell me what it got too via the bidding?
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