[Nicone]

May 28, 2008 15:35:07 GMT 1 @alsbabar said:

i am f**king useless today my bad AGAIN

apologies

;D

[banksman]

After looking through LAZinc site I came across the Banksy DI FACE CASE, and being a tyre kicker I emailed them requesting the price......................................................400k + VAT

www.lazinc.com/artists/banksy/original/296/

Thoughts?

B..................................

[snakes]

Make your own.

1. Just need one fake tenner from ebay (as they are all most likely snide).
2. Use of the works photocopier
3. Some prit-stick
4. A case

Cost - much much less than 400K!

[grantb]

that is alot of money.

[Harveyn]

I would be significantly happier with my £400k tucked up in a case in the vault of my bank.... ;D ;D

[pimp]

in 2006 the piece you are referring to was available from Lazarides for £10k + vat

now thats inflation...

[banksman]

The VAT adds another 70k!!!!!!!!

If it was 400K I'd buy it but I refuse to pay 470K........

B.............

[They call me Stephen]

jesus....that is inflation!

laz is literally printing money. as to whether or not he's just printing these out on the work copier is yet to be seen

[Michael Jacob]

thats insane. there so much better art from Banksy you can get for that. Plus, it wouldnt display well. Id much rather have a large canvas.

[banksman]

I'd much rather have a LARGE HOUSE!!!!!!!

[moleman]

typical laz really really worried about the faile show being mega over priced for the standard jo

[onemandown72]

Jul 29, 2008 18:03:13 GMT 1 moleman said:

typical laz really really worried about the faile show being mega over priced for the standard jo

Galleries price their work in consulatation with their artists, so the pricing of the case by Laz will be done with Banksy's tacit knowledge and agreement, as a result Banksy has as much responsibilty for this as Laz, and you cannot deny that Banksy's talent has been incredibly well managed, regardless of whether you approve or not..
And this will be the case with the Faile show, and any other artists the gallery represents. So Laz bashing isn't really appropriate as this is a 2 way process

[cashman]

Jul 29, 2008 18:32:14 GMT 1 @onemandown72 said:

Jul 29, 2008 18:03:13 GMT 1 moleman said:

typical laz really really worried about the faile show being mega over priced for the standard jo

Galleries price their work in consulatation with their artists, so the pricing of the case by Laz will be done with Banksy's tacit knowledge and agreement, as a result Banksy has as much responsibilty for this as Laz, and you cannot deny that Banksy's talent has been incredibly well managed, regardless of whether you approve or not..
And this will be the case with the Faile show, and any other artists the gallery represents. So Laz bashing isn't really appropriate as this is a 2 way process

So your also saying that faile told him to sell the paper monster piece for 2k ??

[moleman]

i know that is crap because there is a new print from a big artist coming out and laz rang the people releasing it and told them they better not price it to low to ruin the artist prices on the market
They have more power than you think and looking at all the prices that are stable at the mo dont buy anyone who dont sell at laz

[ricobenfico]

Why don't all of us who have a Di tenner put them together and stick them in a suitcase then split the 470k?!? We'd still make a healthy profit!!!

[LEVI C]

what a great result for all involved.......apart from the deluded buyer of course! if there is one, what an absolute head case (boom boom)

[onemandown72]

Jul 29, 2008 19:30:08 GMT 1 moleman said:

i know that is crap because there is a new print from a big artist coming out and laz rang the people releasing it and told them they better not price it to low to ruin the artist prices on the market
They have more power than you think and looking at all the prices that are stable at the mo dont buy anyone who dont sell at laz

I've never made the point that Laz doesn't wield extensive influence, the point I'm making is that the artists with Laz have input into this, how their career's are managed through pricing.
Too often Laz are taken to task as purely profiteering a*seholes with no consideration for an artists future. Has anybody making these statements actually spoken to any of the artists represented by Laz and can state that the artist are unhappy with the pricing? Or how Laz have managed them?

[moleman]

No because there so big they wont email you back or the very very very small amount that do avoid the questions as i have asked because the answer would end up on here. At the end of the day what would you say if you were an artist the thing is with laz they have so much money they can leave confessions on for two grand for how ever long it takes. I dont have them just dont hear of or see them doing much good when they get involved. Yes im still bitter over the 3d hand finished crap prints that were a rip off my one and only dealing with them hope the faile show rocks

[sesssion]

I think you will find that Laz probably owns that briefcase in his own personal stock/collection and can therefore put whatever pricetag he wants on it. The case used to be in the window of Tom Tom many moons ago when Laz did sale or return.

[Ged]

It isn't always as black and white as to say that the artist and gallery set the price on a piece.

Here are some examples of how it can work:

1) Galleries often commission artists to create a piece exclusively for them. They will give an artist a time scale of when they want it ready for, give the artist a one off payment in advance for the image and then sell the original/prints and retain the profits. This way, although the artist can make considerably less money than if they took a cut of the profits there is less risk to them because they have been paid in advance and don't have to worry about the prints selling or not. This would apply to less popular artists and not the big boys i.e. Banksy whose work is almost guaranteed to sell out.
2) An artist is signed to a gallery and all work sells through them and they price the work at a level that they are both happy with.
3) The gallery may think that the artist is underselling their work by selling it at £XXX so the gallery will increase the price, often with the artists knowledge.
4) Galleries also have different commission rates (can vary from 25% - 50%) so once you add this to the wholesale price it will create different prices.
5) And as Session said, galleries often have their own private collection which they may sell when the time is right - which, excuse the pun, could be the 'case' with Banksy DI FACE piece.

There is no written rule as to how a gallery operates and each one may work slightly different.

[baileymontana]

I've noticed posts from people in the past saying that they thought Laz was charging too much for the Kate Moss prints when they were originally something like a £1000 each! I'm sure Laz must now have a contact list for a number of Bored Millionaires who want to get down with street art. As a gallery why should they sell something for £50,000 if they feel they can get a lot more....they are a business after all.

[moleman]

like i said in the eelius thread you can sell banksy for 2000 quid edition of 1000 3 times a year but thats a months wages (more ) and maybe tough luck to me then but thats what makes flippers flip to get the art they want. Do you want flippers or well priced art you decide.
I know laz are big buisness just dont think they are doing the artist (except banksy ) or the scene any good

[Karl Read]

I hate all that POA on prices! What is mental though on the Laz site they even have a POA on Banky's Wall and piece book! WTF!

[baileymontana]

Jul 30, 2008 10:33:45 GMT 1 moleman said:

like i said in the eelius thread you can sell banksy for 2000 quid edition of 1000 3 times a year but thats a months wages (more ) and maybe tough luck to me then but thats what makes flippers flip to get the art they want. Do you want flippers or well priced art you decide.
I know laz are big buisness just dont think they are doing the artist (except banksy ) or the scene any good

I think that's a bit unfair to Laz as this scene would not be what it is without Laz. I'd be surprised if all the online galleries that are part of this forum don't secretly dream of being in the position where Laz is today.
I do want well priced art but Laz is probably not the place for me to go to get that but there are plenty of other places to go (including POW). As I wrote above I'm sure there are people who look at Laz and see it as "well priced art" and that's Laz's client base at the moment.

[moleman]

being big and helping promote the scene does not mean you can push it into orbit faile confessions is a good example.
Laz must have a good client base well done to them all the best.
Like i said also in the other thread pow is good (at the mo) but when mic brought out his two prints look at the sh@t that happened if he released them today in this current market they would have gone in seconds . He had priced for the market so you could not flip so easy. Then laz bring out la four at 1000 each edition 400 and there still not sold out another bad call. Not saying laz did it all but they didnt help.
How many prints have we had since then from mic.

[baileymontana]

I can see your point of view. I just feel that Laz always seems to have pushed prices and overall they have got it right. Not sure how many of the 400 Micallef's are left but it does seem that a fair amount were sold. I thought it was good that flippers got stung and it was a good lesson for the scene that art prints are not guaranteed investments. Not sure if Laz or Micallef wanted that to happen with the print releases but the way prices were going it had to happen sooner or later. It highlighted as is often said here, you should only pay what you can afford to buy art you like...that way round it makes no difference whether prices go up or down. If you are a genuine Micallef fan and were prepared to pay £1000 + for some art I know you'd be gutted if prices then went down (I would be) but you also have to take into account that Laz or Micallef do not force anyone to buy their art.

It could be that Micallef has not released any prints as he made quite a lot of money with the last sales so he can now concentrate on doing some original work, without having to fund it by selling more prints. As an artist he must be grateful that Laz's business plan allows him to do that.

[moleman]

what im is not its not all laz fault but sometimes they take the piss as they have a high class (bigger walleted phonebook). When something from laz goes on here its always the same nice art to much. I know buisness is buisness and some do better than others but it wears a little thin to me. Hand on heart i would rather buy a print off ebay and give joe bloggs 500 quid than a massive gallery come to think of it i have.

[baileymontana]

Jul 30, 2008 12:21:55 GMT 1 moleman said:

what im is not its not all laz fault but sometimes they take the piss as they have a high class (bigger walleted phonebook). When something from laz goes on here its always the same nice art to much. I know buisness is buisness and some do better than others but it wears a little thin to me. Hand on heart i would rather buy a print off ebay and give joe bloggs 500 quid than a massive gallery come to think of it i have.

Totally agree with you on buying from other people and you have made some fair points about Laz. I've never dealt with Laz but they've been polite when I've visited the galleries and asked about prices (even though they probably knew I couldn't afford them!).

[cashman]

baileymontana: are you related to Laz ?

[ricobenfico]

My tuppence: We could talk about this till we're blue in the face (not abad thing, it's interesting chat) but the people who pay the £50k+ prices aren't going to be spending their time on this forum giving us their point of view to counter-debate are they? As has been said above already, Laz must have these clients on a list with pretty much guaranteed sales (depending on style preference etc of the pieces).

And as Bailey says, they are a business after all and they wouldn't still be in existance if they weren't 'selling their wares' (as such). I think there are varying 'levels' of purchasing/selling/flipping/commissioning that goes on within the Urban/Street Art (whatever) market that not all of us are privy too. Would be interesting to find out though!!!