[bullysonzx10r]

Hey all! Some of you may have seen me around the forum, others may not. I'm fairly new, but really love Street art and Urban art. It's quickly become a serious passion for me.

I would love to own a Banksy print, and I do not own one right now. It seems like the avg going price for an Unsigned Banksy (Obviously some are higher or lower in demand) is around 2,500 GBP or 4,300 USD.

This seems fairly high, but I admittedly am not familiar enough with the historical values of the various Banksy prints to judge that properly.

With all of that being said -- Do you all think that 2,500 GBP/ 4,300 USD is fair market value for an unsigned Banksy Print?

If this question is ridiculous, feel free to lock and delete the thread.

[Black Apple Art]

Jun 19, 2014 2:04:07 GMT 1 bullysonzx10r said:

Hey all! Some of you may have seen me around the forum, others may not. I'm fairly new, but really love Street art and Urban art. It's quickly become a serious passion for me.

I would love to own a Banksy print, and I do not own one right now. It seems like the avg going price for an Unsigned Banksy (Obviously some are higher or lower in demand) is around 2,500 GBP or 4,300 USD.

This seems fairly high, but I admittedly am not familiar enough with the historical values of the various Banksy prints to judge that properly.

With all of that being said -- Do you all think that 2,500 GBP/ 4,300 USD is fair market value for an unsigned Banksy Print?

If this question is ridiculous, feel free to lock and delete the thread.

I can advise the best route is to invest in your own DD (due diligence) before laying down funds for a print. Don't rush, brows the forum and sales threads. There is a great wealth of knowledge to be had from browsing threads and discussions here.  Then also be familiar with the general "gallery" pricing from places like Artnet and Hangup so you can have a basic knowledge of the retail prices and print editions out there.

I think if you put in the time to educate your self you will find members here much more willing to help when they can see you have done your homework and are not asking them to do it for you. Best of luck in your search! 

[disdig1]

I personally don't understand how unsigned prints have gone from the 1500-2500 pound range for most unsigned prints to what is being quoted above as the minimum to get in the market in what seems like a matter of a few months.

I know his show last year has obviously pushed prices but this recent rise over the past few months seems crazy to me.

[Ruggs]

I think with the success of BOTI last year along with numerous recent auction prices and the hype surrounding his current unofficial retrospective at Sotheby's he's what art fans and dealers want right now. His signed prints are rapidly becoming unaffordable with your average punter, so the alternative is unsigned editions, which despite increasing are still reasonably affordable. For how long though, maybe this time next year they may have increased even more than they are today. In 2012 I struggled to find a buyer for my lemon yellow CYW which I eventually sold for £3.4k, today it might set you back between £12k-£15k. A hell of a jump in a little over two years. CYW's, Nola's along with early signed Banksy's are realising top dollar right now. Unsigned prints are proving just as sought-after. Now might be the right time to strike.

[Deleted]

Demand for Banksy is Huge, right across the globe. 90% of my clients are outside the uk now. One of the main reasons prices just keep rising is he has released a tiny volume of work in relation to Warhol etc (probably 100th the volume of Warhol or more) but he is just as in demand and it looks like he isn't releasing any more, more and more are finding there way into collections not to surface for a long time and its only going to get worse imo. For a long time most of my emails were regarding signed, people were saying oh I wouldn't buy an unsigned print, I said exactly the same thing in the early stages but that's not the case anymore. Pest Control play a major part with the coa's, a stroke of genius using the idea of the old deeds to a house, truth is most coas don't mean much, if they can fake the artwork trust me they can fake receipts and coa's, the tenner/serial number is a massive help to stopping fakes. Truth is the unsigned are identical bar that signature, the signature will always add value, I do question whether a signature is worth 20k+ like GWB, but many collectors will always want that sig, with rising prices in signed, unsigned will keep following.

[dbnetherleigh]

Guessing it's something to do with basic economics as well - supply and demand. With no recent print releases Banksy has effectively curbed the supply part of the equation, pushing up demand, so even the previously relatively affordable non-signed prints have shot up in value - a lot of it has to do with the image as well - classics images will always be more sought after, and with an increased 'general' interest in Banksy on the back of the Bristol museum exhibition, Exit and BOTI there's a much greater number of peeps chasing whats out there. That being said good luck with your search!....,

[Deleted]

Americans is to blame

[Shoeless]

Yup, will not buying my first Banksy any time soon.....

not all bothered though. While I enjoy some of the images, I can't see the sustained value in an unsigned print. £1000 for most seems reasonable. Now starting at £2000 for an edition of 750 or 1000 unsigned?! There are just too many great artists out there with originals that can be had for that amount. Yes, same old argument and such.....

[BKBOI]

The market will cool down and there will be some form of correction.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2014 11:56:01 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

The market will cool down and there will be some form of correction.

I agree it will cool down just like it did after BOTI, it settled for a while then when theres more media attention it rises again, that along with fewer and fewer works being available. I don't think it will go backwards though unless 1 of 2 things happen, the next global economic crisis or Banksy turns out to be Rolfie. He's just too big a name on the scene now. 

[Poster Bob]

Jun 19, 2014 11:56:01 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

The market will cool down and there will be some form of correction.

A gallery told me this and then suggested I buy Bambi. I think it's more likely that these price increases will be the new norm given the rise of his profile in America. By the time it should be "corrected" regular supply and demand will sustain the current prices. 

[Dungle]

Jun 19, 2014 12:31:47 GMT 1 Poster Bob said:

Jun 19, 2014 11:56:01 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

The market will cool down and there will be some form of correction.

A gallery told me this and then suggested I buy Bambi. I think it's more likely that these price increases will be the new norm given the rise of his profile in America. By the time it should be "corrected" regular supply and demand will sustain the current prices. 

Agreed.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2014 12:31:47 GMT 1 Poster Bob said:

Jun 19, 2014 11:56:01 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

The market will cool down and there will be some form of correction.

A gallery told me this and then suggested I buy Bambi. I think it's more likely that these price increases will be the new norm given the rise of his profile in America. By the time it should be "corrected" regular supply and demand will sustain the current prices. 

A client of mine brought 2 works into the gallery this morning to see if I would be interested in selling them for him, one was a beautiful pen and ink by Jack B yeats the other was a Bambi, the JB Yeats is hanging on the wall now, lovely draftmanship.

[bullysonzx10r]

My main reason for asking this question was because recently that thread was resurfaced that had a print, in 2010 that was being laughed at for the seller asking 1800-2000 GBP unsigned, and now it's easily running 4500-5000 GBP unsigned.

I'll probably pull the trigger on something in the next two months or so, but it's a sizable purchase with regards to opportunity cost...

I guess you really need to approach it from a "regardless of cost now or future cost, I want this on my wall more than these 3-4 other pieces, ect."

I also wonder if a brand new ed of 1000, or an open ed that was retailed at 500GBP would immediately hit the secondary market at 4-5x that.

[Deleted]

If you want one on your wall and you can afford to buy one then do it, you'll love it.

Dont go into debt for it though.

[Deleted]

The chances of Banksy releasing another print is pretty slim imho, if he did release an edition of 1000 for £500 I'd guess a lot would be for sale pretty soon after for a lot more, hard to say how much as it would depend on the image, an open edition print at £500 would be an expensive buy even for Banksy. Don't get caught up too much in what people say in regards to which prints the best investment etc, all in all Banksy prints should all hold their money/rise in value so just go for the one you like the most in your price range.

[Deleted]

if you can afford it and really really really like the image, then go for it. if you buy for the investment potential and its crashes, you will feel like shit everytime you look at it.buy with your heart.

Historical precedents include Micallef @ laz and the faile bubble

Likely future crashes include pretty much everything coming out of Norway at the minute and Os gemos

[Dungle]

Jun 19, 2014 12:47:10 GMT 1 @andy3636 said:

Jun 19, 2014 12:31:47 GMT 1 Poster Bob said:

A gallery told me this and then suggested I buy Bambi. I think it's more likely that these price increases will be the new norm given the rise of his profile in America. By the time it should be "corrected" regular supply and demand will sustain the current prices. 

A client of mine brought 2 works into the gallery this morning to see if I would be interested in selling them for him, one was a beautiful pen and ink by Jack B yeats the other was a Bambi, the JB Yeats is hanging on the wall now, lovely draftmanship.

and you've hung the Bambi in your house already?

[yoyosh]

I think most who read/contribute to this forum will say OS Gemeos are talented, creative artists who are rapidly becoming "stars". That being said, they're nowhere near the type of international superstar that Banksy has become.
When OS Gemeos released The Other Side (at $4500 USD) you all know what happened. Pandemonium and a huge markup on the secondary market. That's not an apples to apples comparrison since the OS print was signed...BUT, it shows what people will pay for arts rising stars. No one compares to Banksy as far as this generation goes.
People are starting to realize he's probably not going to produce any more prints, so if you want in....what's out there is all you have to choose from and the prices are not going down.

[jim65535]

I've lurked around on this forum for 5 years or so and been buying art for longer. Quite interested in this thread. Virtually everything I've bought I bought because I loved the image and wanted it on my walls.

I agree with everyone who says only buy what you can afford and buy images you love that you think are worth the cost of purchase to put on your wall. If the image either retains or increases in value that's a bonus.

I do have a number of Banksy prints on the wall....all but one are unsigned. I bought them because I loved the image. They have increased in value but if they were worth nothing I'd still love them. The danger now is that people are buying on the basis of investment and therefore it is becoming a market and markets can have bubbles, corrections and crashes.

Re a possible release in the future from Banksy we only have CYW to go on really where there must have been getting on for 1000 prints in the various colourways...they were about £500 initially and were being immediately flipped for £3k to £5k....now as we can all see selling for £10k+ which seems very high compared to some of the other signed art prints going to auction from Chagall, Dali etc which have found their value over longer periods of time. I didn't buy CYW as the image wasn't for me and I've been able to buy other images which I like more but which I know won't be as strong an investment.

I do think there are some very strong current artists in Urban art including Os Gemeos (I don't own any) and was quite pleased to see release prices such that flipping didn't work and would be great if we could get away from it on more releases.

I know artists and their galleries want to ensure that ownership is sought after but a few more open editions so we can get artists we like on the wall like Banksy with the litho Soup Cans (one of my favourite pieces on my walls) wouldn't go amiss.

At the end of the day enjoy the art you buy and don't risk money you can't afford to. If you do that you're smiling every day at the art in your home.

[Dungle]

Good post jim65535.

Post more often!

[Red Barron]

I was given a trial subscription to an art website and they have a graph of Banksy prices of the past ten years. It is identical to equities (FTSE, S&P) with a run up until 2008, a big collapse and now a sharp rise. So is it really Banksy's fame is rising or that art investors just sadly view him as another "asset" class? In an era where a 22 year old can become a billionaire in a year of an app that had no positive profits yet, it doesn't surprise me that what interest him would also rise sharply in value.

If you believe the Brazilian economy is solid and will move higher over the years then Os Gemeos prices will as well. If there is a collapse in their economy, I suspect their prices will move lower...just look at Argentine artist pricing...bottom line is what others have already said, collect what you love and can afford whether it be a Banksy canvas or a Swoon 40 dollar braddick tiles print...I would have no qualms with both of those side by side on my wall.

[Deleted]

Wow, thats all very academic.

I just like the Rats and Monkeys.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 14:27:03 GMT 1 @wizbong said:

Wow, thats all very academic.

I just like the Rats and Monkeys.

Lmao...

[Unica]

I'd think that given the price difference between a signed and unsigned print, being close to 3x as much for the signed that this would only strengthen the price of unsigned. I could buy 3 quality unsigned LIITA prints for the price of a signed and they are basically exactly the same except for the signature and considered part of the edition.
Hmm, who am I kidding, if I had the money i'd only buy signed prints only. But like many people the price does matter and if you like the image, may as well just get the unsigned.

[gatecrasher]

I'm not judging, but there seems so many posts from people who want a "Banksy print"

The prices are too high to be buying a "Banksy print" just because it's in a price range rather than because you love that particular image or message. I always think the buyer wants it for the "Banksy on my wall" factor or as a pure investment.

Now if someone posts " Hey I want a Banksy print of that copper with his finger up ... whats that going to cost me ? Ouch really ?" , then that feels like it's about the art rather than the ownage.

Personally, I accept that the boat has sailed for me financially for owning any Banksy work. But that's fine because I still love the images and there's some great affordable artists trying to make a living out of art that I can hang on my walls.

[Deleted]

I love that thought, 'The Monkey one' or 'The Rat holding summat'.

[gatecrasher]

"I saw that image with the kids saluting a Tesco flag ... I want it" as opposed to "I have £2.5k .. what can I buy ?"

My advice as a completely inexperienced art speculator, if you fall into the second category, is to take your wife/kids/mum on an awesome £2.5k holiday and enjoy the memories for a lifetime

[Fairxat]

people who would only collect signed prints from 2-3 years ago where signed prints were 2-4k same as unsigned now are now buying into unsigned market pushing prices

[Jeezuz Jones Snr]

I agree gateceasher 90% are buying for investment. All my purchases (a small collection) I have been lucky to get at cost, I have one signed banksy and i like other images but they are too pricey for me. Although I mentioned to my wife 2 years ago when we sold our house and made a decent profit we should buy a signed GWB for our daughter as an investment and sell it in 16 years when she starts university.

I asked 2 galleries and they were 14k and 16k pounds... My wife said 'that's crazy for a piece of paper' etc... But I said its 'supply and demand' and things will only dry up more.. looks like its happening fast. Also banksy is yet to do any thing on China. Maybe he will do something huge there one day and when that happens, there will be a lot of new customers contacting galleries buying everything up. So much $$ over there. I read some there are 2.9 million millionaires in china.