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Post by bullet on Mar 17, 2012 13:02:18 GMT 1
Not normally a daily fail reader, but this caught my eye as it relates to the gangs you see in print queues as well. On the rise due to recession and desperation for earning money... People selling spots in queues etc. It has got very silly, but what can anyone do to stop it? I dont really understand the queuing mentality for an ipad for 5 days when you can walk into the store a day or two later and just pick one up. The culture of wanting to be the first or using bully tactics to get something first has spawned a new breed of gang... The hype gets to people and it is only going to get worse. This is the reason why people like POW might have a rethink on queues. People bleet on about how the no ball games queue was perfect etc, but that was before things got tough for people and the gangs came in. No matter how well things are policed, due to greed you will always get these gangs. Problem is with this mentality, is that in spreads to panic... Just remembering the scenes of a recent print queue where a guy was as nice as pie all night and slapping everyone on the back quaffing beers. Then when it came to it, he was an inch from a punch up when he found out he might miss out. www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2115333/New-iPad-3-UK-launch-Fans-sleep-street-3g-Apple-tablet.html-- FR |
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Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2012 13:41:13 GMT 1
Thanks for this Jboy.
People must remember the eastern european gang at the front of the CYW queue, with the boss handing out cash to his minions right in front of the POW bouncers. What did POW do? f**k all, even though they could see them right at the head of the queue, knowing they would attempt to flip those different colourways as a full set within 24 hours.
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m00man
1 Star Member
Posts: 108
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Post by m00man on Mar 17, 2012 14:20:42 GMT 1
All the blame has to rest with the gallery. If they didn't serve them, they wouldn't do it.
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Post by ElevenSpots on Mar 17, 2012 14:29:19 GMT 1
Would you attempt to chuck someone out of a queue who had 5 big mates and was a good size himself - just because you thought he was a flipper, spot seller, etc?
Do you propose POW ask "Judge Judy" to decide how should be allowed to stand in the queue. How about a Banksy IQ test - but would that be fair on people that don't speak english (they can like Banksy too) or who are s**t at exams?
Is it as wrong for the wealthy criminal (making the criminal assumption - as standard "forum banter") sending "workers" to queue - as much as it is the student wanting some money to pay for board/lodging and a few beers?
Stories always have two sides - we live in a free market, just because something is precious to you, its not to everyone else.
But what is precious - the art, the ownership, the paper, the future value. Lets be honest - money is a massive factor for all of us.
£500 for a bit of printed paper - are we mad?
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Post by Veralynn on Mar 17, 2012 14:30:47 GMT 1
I'd say in their position it would be pretty hard not to serve them - how do you differentiate one 'type' of buyer from another.
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Post by fingerz on Mar 17, 2012 14:31:22 GMT 1
could be worse it could be released in a rough part of the UK
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Post by murdock on Mar 17, 2012 14:46:07 GMT 1
£500 for a bit of printed paper - are we mad? ...  |
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m00man
1 Star Member
Posts: 108
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Post by m00man on Mar 17, 2012 14:48:46 GMT 1
I agree in some cases its hard to tell and they understandably fall through the net. buuuuut there's a lot of blatant crap going on.. e.g.... take your kids to buy an invader each......
photo id check the queue at set intervals leading up to the opening and issue ticket numbers to the logged names
require photo id upon purchase that matches your allocated queue position
1 per credit/debit card (which has to match logged queue name)
1 per person
1 per household
no cash purchases
over 18's purchase only (id check)
Queue managed by security
Ban people who try to push in (which should be obvious after checking queue sheet)
Writing some names on raffle tickets would suffice.....
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Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2012 14:49:21 GMT 1
How do you differentiate what is flipping and what is trading on the black market???
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Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2012 14:50:59 GMT 1
Unless of course the Daily Fails article (which i haven't read and have no intention of adding to their website hits) is talking about black people who work on market stalls and hang around in a gang.
They are that petty, so this might be what they mean.
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Post by bullet on Mar 17, 2012 14:59:52 GMT 1
The whole things comes down to money and greed.
No one loves a print enough to spend £500 on it without knowing its worth.
You would only spend that money of you knew you would get that money back at some point.
People can state otherwise but its just the fact of it.
I love toffee popcorn, but you would not spend £500 on a packet unless you knew someone would also pay you for that popcorn the same or more in the future.
The flipping argument has been discussed to death and its more or less just an expected aspect of it. but black market gangs are not flippers. These are people who are selling the things to pay for drugs and organised crime rather than to buy a hd tv.
We only have ourselves to blame really, the more hype something gets the more someones going to want it. Would be good to do an experiment sometime down the line where no one said two words about a print release on a public forum.. Then lets see how popular it is.
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Post by bullet on Mar 17, 2012 15:05:18 GMT 1
No cash purchases would stop the majority of it.. Totally agree with that.
Plus you dont get 250 people with £500 cash on each person sitting on a dodgy street all night. Its actually quite apalling that people are made to do that.
Imagine if someone robbed the queue. That would just be mental.
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deputydawg
3 Star Member
Amazing quality/price ratio
Posts: 996
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Post by deputydawg on Mar 17, 2012 15:08:31 GMT 1
We're passed this, just accept this forum first and foremost is to ensure a certin type of print let's call it urban has a value and is 'wanted'. Once you accept this central ideal everything makes sense here at least.
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Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2012 15:15:02 GMT 1
The whole things comes down to money and greed. ... Would be good to do an experiment sometime down the line where no one said two words about a print release on a public forum.. Then lets see how popular it is. don't really enjoy getting in on these debates... but there's something going on here lately that reads strange and angry... but anyways... silly feedback and not meant to to antagonistic at all - just an uninformed humble view... but, before 'public forums' and the internet - things got popular!... how so? need to look back and remember! that said, most people who use the internet and these public forums haven't a clue about how the internet is actually configured and how it is actually used - sad, but true... the human psyche manipulation potential is insane! - but, that just assumes weakness... but, anyways... |
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Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2012 17:21:40 GMT 1
The whole things comes down to money and greed. ... Would be good to do an experiment sometime down the line where no one said two words about a print release on a public forum.. Then lets see how popular it is. don't really enjoy getting in on these debates... but there's something going on here lately that reads strange and angry... but anyways... silly feedback and not meant to to antagonistic at all - just an uninformed humble view... but, before 'public forums' and the internet - things got popular!... how so? need to look back and remember! that said, most people who use the internet and these public forums haven't a clue about how the internet is actually configured and how it is actually used - sad, but true... the human psyche manipulation potential is insane! - but, that just assumes weakness... but, anyways... I love this concept you are touching on and could get quite invoved in a conversation about manipulation of the psyche by the internet generation, of which this is a great example, as you say. |
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Post by bullet on Mar 17, 2012 18:18:12 GMT 1
Did not really understand what was said there...
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Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2012 18:27:23 GMT 1
Did not really understand what was said there... Wow, I am mightily impressed by your level of minuses Mr Plumb. It's going to take me a hell of a long time to get to your level of mastery. You are the king (for the time being). |
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temple
1 Star Member
Posts: 42
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Post by temple on Mar 18, 2012 1:09:37 GMT 1
People could.........and i know im being a bit leftfield here................but people could vote with their feet and think "im put in a bad situation, and by being here im making it worse for people next time too" and stay away, i mean we gotta admit to ourselves why we do this, and is it for "the art" or the money or the one up manship, dare I say prestige?
a guy I work with was telling me about him and his cousin standing outside a shoe store as they had 25 pairs of a nike shoe, and they probably all ended up on ebay and dudes were prowling trying to buy spaces etc - and im sure there is some sneaker forum with people posting "but im s true fan" "i saw it first" and "i was in to Jordans when he was a size 11 or something equally dumb.
stay safe, support those who support you, its that simple.
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Post by Finsbury on Mar 18, 2012 1:23:12 GMT 1
pow need a flipper tazer
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temple
1 Star Member
Posts: 42
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Post by temple on Mar 18, 2012 1:35:01 GMT 1
sounds like a shin busting skateboard trick!
its a toughie, its like gig tickets, i remember cueing outside Stargreen for hours once for Pixies tickets, i had a laptop with infra red connection to my phone (2001!) and was online trying to book, on 2 phones calling and 3 feet from the door........all sold out, i moaned at a girl inside when 9am rolled by and they went to "sold out" instantly and she said "they are on ebay" and that was it for me - heart broken, "they" won etc - and the only way to stop it is by not buying buying from touts so they wont have a business.......I buy a lot of art and sell a bit too, i like the thrill of opening new pieces and getting stoked on having them up in the lounge for a few months and then selling them on when im over it, i buy cheap stuff and sell it on pretty cheap and when i have enough in my account i buy a more expensive piece - maybe i flipped some obey prints that were a let down, but it was all in aid to get a Micallef on the chimney breast....but totally see there is a pair or arguments here, 1: who has the right to get preferential treatment because they are a fan, or lots of post counts on a forum.........and 2: who has the right to make a quick quid....elitism v capitalism im afraid.
only 2 solutions i can think of:
1: print 100s more and cheaper....its all about the art right?
or my preferred
2: have the print for sale for one day and how many it sells is how many its limited by.
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schnulli
3 Star Member
A certain idiot
Posts: 731
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Post by schnulli on Mar 18, 2012 7:02:55 GMT 1
only 2 solutions i can think of: 1: print 100s more and cheaper....its all about the art right? or my preferred 2: have the print for sale for one day and how many it sells is how many its limited by. Either one of these now is the most logical solution to the problem here, a good example being the Geddes Warmer Air release. |
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deputydawg
3 Star Member
Amazing quality/price ratio
Posts: 996
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Post by deputydawg on Mar 18, 2012 7:28:52 GMT 1
Or you know dont bother selling from a location
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Post by johnnyh on Mar 18, 2012 7:50:38 GMT 1
They should just do the whole thing on line. Much more efficient but then may be they like the crowd and people waiting.
Unless they say only Redg owners, members on here or somewhere else etc (not suggesting that they should do that) think it is difficult to filter a line of people. They could may be do the tokens thing but that never seems to work either.
There is some merit to current Redg owners being entitled to one as this may reduce flipping......but again a bit weird to do.
So the online thing is good for me......the fact that in Hong Kong and will not be at the queue anyway makes me biased of course
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deputydawg
3 Star Member
Amazing quality/price ratio
Posts: 996
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Post by deputydawg on Mar 18, 2012 7:55:04 GMT 1
......but again a bit weird to do. Weird? I'd say that's the snobbery we're supposed to be against. |
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Post by johnnyh on Mar 18, 2012 9:00:33 GMT 1
That's why it would be weird to do. Hence the comment. Just listing a number of options if they want to reduce the chaos that everyone comments about.
There is some merit as it goes to people who are redg'd owners and are less likely to flip. But not sure flipping is an issue for them (POW) as they do not sell them at true market value but know what will happen soon as sold. So as mentioned with the other points not suggesting this is a correct way to do it
As per the note my choice is online all of it. ......
I think the last threads comments are best left there.
Johnny
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schnulli
3 Star Member
A certain idiot
Posts: 731
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Post by schnulli on Mar 18, 2012 10:45:41 GMT 1
There is some merit to current Redg owners being entitled to one as this may reduce flipping. Don't know what's meritable about that....what about those that are new to the scene, can't afford secondary market prices or have never had any luck on previous lotteries? |
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Post by johnnyh on Mar 18, 2012 11:05:45 GMT 1
Schnulli. Completely agree with your point. Not my favoure approach but it is and will be a flip fest.
Never got one myself in the lottery but think an online one is best way for the reasons you mention.
The reason say some merit is that it is fans/collecters who end paying the flip prices and a lot get flipped pretty rapidly. Seems more and more are just flipped hence almost the same thing happens re people who cannot afford or are new to the scene anyway. Talk of paying people to jump the line etc. Never been to one as lived away for so long and never won in the lottery either.
But as I say my choice but slightly biased due to location is an online lottery as this is reasonably fair to all etc.
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Post by Leftery on Mar 18, 2012 11:39:25 GMT 1
£500 for a bit of printed paper - are we mad? ... The world is a mad place  |
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confused2
2 Star Member
We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams
Posts: 430
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Post by confused2 on Mar 18, 2012 14:00:25 GMT 1
Don't the select few already get access to prints in rare colourways - Gold/ Silver CYW and Neon Nola?
It's a hard one to call, but the online option/ lottery seems the easiest to police.
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Post by Guest on Mar 18, 2012 14:09:47 GMT 1
Thanks for this Jboy. People must remember the eastern european gang at the front of the CYW queue, with the boss handing out cash to his minions right in front of the POW bouncers. What did POW do? f**k all, even though they could see them right at the head of the queue, knowing they would attempt to flip those different colourways as a full set within 24 hours. No doubt the bouncers were on the take to? |
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