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Post by urbanflik on Feb 9, 2012 23:13:28 GMT 1
Hi all,
I'm potentially going to buy my first Banksy from a private individual. They have COA and PC certification but I have no experience with what the means exactly and looks like, so I wanted people's views on an absolute bullet proof method of a genuine print, that would be considered reasonable for both buyer and seller.
Any thoughts / suggestions much appreciated.
Cheers
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Post by craigf on Feb 9, 2012 23:19:05 GMT 1
Meet at POW and get them to confirm owners name the print is registered in, the print & COA are legit and sellers inside leg measurement You can probably forget the last bit, possibly ott  |
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Post by urbanflik on Feb 9, 2012 23:24:47 GMT 1
I did think POW, but is this something they mind doing or is it chargeable?
Also do they arrange reregistration of a prints ownership?
Cheers Craigf !
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Post by silvermyn on Feb 9, 2012 23:26:30 GMT 1
I don't think you can get a COA and PC certification but happy to be proven wrong. I'm pretty sure that you just get the COA and that's your lot. The only other official thing you could do is drop Dora at line at POW and confirm that your seller is registered as the current owner.
I'd make sure it looks the way you are expecting it to (check other images online), make sure the dimensions are correct, make sure the details on the print marry up to the COA, have a look at the blind stamp and signature and trust your instincts about the seller.
Best of luck with it.
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Post by easycraig on Feb 9, 2012 23:31:42 GMT 1
-if the owner has a pest control cert... pretty sure you can contact them with the current owners name/print and they should be able to verify that. - i know i have checked with Pow before on 'who the print was originally sold to.... but i think pest has taken over. After you have received the print and cert you will probably want it put in your name anyways... at that point contact Pest Control and i would think they will move it over... -probably cost some funds to do that though. ec
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Post by urbanflik on Feb 9, 2012 23:37:25 GMT 1
All good points here chaps, appreciated.
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confused2
2 Star Member
We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams
Posts: 431
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Post by confused2 on Feb 10, 2012 0:12:34 GMT 1
All good info.
For my last Banksy purchase, I got the COA details from the seller and verified the details with POW before purchase.
Once I had the print in my possession, I went through the usual authentication process, including pics of the COA. Pest Control then contacted the previous owner to verify the sale and the print was re-registered to me. I didn't have to pay for the service.
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Post by coach on Feb 10, 2012 0:20:39 GMT 1
I have always taken the view that if someone is good enough to forge a print, whoever the artist, then they are good enough to forge a COA as well. Coa's should not be a substitute for properly checking a piece's provenence.
But I do think that some get too eager to insist on prov for low value pieces - who is going to forge a print worth £100 when they could be forging one worth 50 times that?
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Post by deputydawg on Feb 10, 2012 0:37:27 GMT 1
All good advice, there's no charge to having it registered in your name, also any probs make sure you've paid for it on a c/c via paypal |
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Post by gooooglemale on Feb 10, 2012 0:40:30 GMT 1
I have always taken the view that if someone is good enough to forge a print, whoever the artist, then they are good enough to forge a COA as well. Coa's should not be a substitute for properly checking a piece's provenence. But I do think that some get too eager to insist on prov for low value pieces - who is going to forge a print worth £100 when they could be forging one worth 50 times that? the point with the Pest Control COA is that it has to match the other half that is retained by PC. It is nigh on impossible to forge something which is unique and that you've never seen. my advice to OP is see if you can get to a gallery or somewhere you are confident is legit, who has the same print as the one you are buying. that way you'll get to see the size/colour/shape of the paper/ink etc, meaning you'll be much more likely to notice something untoward in the one you are buying if it is suspect. oh and check the back for a 'banksy copy' stamp ;-) |
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Post by coach on Feb 10, 2012 0:45:36 GMT 1
I have always taken the view that if someone is good enough to forge a print, whoever the artist, then they are good enough to forge a COA as well. Coa's should not be a substitute for properly checking a piece's provenence. But I do think that some get too eager to insist on prov for low value pieces - who is going to forge a print worth £100 when they could be forging one worth 50 times that? the point with the Pest Control COA is that it has to match the other half that is retained by PC. It is nigh on impossible to forge something which is unique and that you've never seen. my advice to OP is see if you can get to a gallery or somewhere you are confident is legit, who has the same print as the one you are buying. that way you'll get to see the size/colour/shape of the paper/ink etc, meaning you'll be much more likely to notice something untoward in the one you are buying if it is suspect. oh and check the back for a 'banksy copy' stamp ;-) Granted, but if people didnt know that, they may just be happy to see a COA, and assume that the print must be ok. My point is, with high value pieces, it worth checking out the prov, not just being given a COA and assuming that means its all good. |
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Post by hubblebubble on Feb 10, 2012 9:15:51 GMT 1
eh?
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Post by hubblebubble on Feb 10, 2012 9:21:48 GMT 1
Back to thread --
With the Banksys I've bought I have contacted PC, told them the print number and who the COA is registered to. They have then confirmed (very quickly) that the relevant COA is now registered to me. I'm not sure they have even contacted the previous owners. No charge from PC. I take away print and COA.
Am I missing something else that needs to be done?
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Post by Nuart 2013 on Feb 10, 2012 9:38:54 GMT 1
Back to thread -- With the Banksys I've bought I have contacted PC, told them the print number and who the COA is registered to. They have then confirmed (very quickly) that the relevant COA is now registered to me. I'm not sure they have even contacted the previous owners. No charge from PC. I take away print and COA. Am I missing something else that needs to be done? Just to add to the pool of info. I've been contacted several times by PC asking if I sold a print to a specific person and the details behind it. You can rest assured they take every measure to ensure these COA's are going to 100% legit prints. |
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Post by hubblebubble on Feb 10, 2012 10:36:10 GMT 1
Worth knowing Nuart... cheers
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Post by motor on Feb 10, 2012 10:38:42 GMT 1
Like with pretty much most art buys (especially private transactions) there is no absolutely bullet proof method.
Everything can be faked and forged and not even PC, POW, galleries or auction houses are foolproof but that's the other matter.
However one shouldn't be discouraged.
There is some great advise from members here.
Of course is not always possible to do all of these things but try to do as many as possible.
I agree with Coach here that COA is not everything and make sure you check all the other provenance too.
If buying here always better when buying from someone "known" and "active".
And is good to hear that PC are trying their best too.
Oh, and if something is too good to be true...
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Post by bullet on Feb 10, 2012 11:42:16 GMT 1
Like with pretty much most art buys (especially private transactions) there is no absolutely bullet proof method. Everything can be faked and forged and not even PC, POW, galleries or auction houses are foolproof but that's the other matter. However one shouldn't be discouraged. There is some great advise from members here. Of course is not always possible to do all of these things but try to do as many as possible. I agree with Coach here that COA is not everything and make sure you check all the other provenance too. If buying here always better when buying from someone "known" and "active". And is good to hear that PC are trying their best too. Oh, and if something is too good to be true... Well thats a bit of a lie. i would say that the PC / POW COA is fool proof as they keep half of the security code torn up from the tenner on the coa. Tell me how you would forge the other half. They would not have setup that system if it was not fool proof. Only a fool would not check. |
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Post by motor on Feb 10, 2012 12:09:43 GMT 1
Like with pretty much most art buys (especially private transactions) there is no absolutely bullet proof method. Everything can be faked and forged and not even PC, POW, galleries or auction houses are foolproof but that's the other matter. However one shouldn't be discouraged. There is some great advise from members here. Of course is not always possible to do all of these things but try to do as many as possible. I agree with Coach here that COA is not everything and make sure you check all the other provenance too. If buying here always better when buying from someone "known" and "active". And is good to hear that PC are trying their best too. Oh, and if something is too good to be true... Well thats a bit of a lie. i would say that the PC / POW COA is fool proof as they keep half of the security code torn up from the tenner on the coa. Tell me how you would forge the other half. They would not have setup that system if it was not fool proof. Only a fool would not check. If you think so then you are a fool. I'm sorry scrap that I'm not. BTW I have never said don't check. On the contrary. But it is not everything. |
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PUD
2 Star Member
Posts: 425
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Post by PUD on Feb 10, 2012 12:26:13 GMT 1
Just make sure that the COA has a COA and that the COA's COA has a COA and that the COA's COA's COA has a COA and ..........
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Post by bullet on Feb 10, 2012 12:33:27 GMT 1
Well thats a bit of a lie. i would say that the PC / POW COA is fool proof as they keep half of the security code torn up from the tenner on the coa. Tell me how you would forge the other half. They would not have setup that system if it was not fool proof. Only a fool would not check. If you think so then you are a fool. I'm sorry scrap that I'm not. BTW I have never said don't check. On the contrary. But it is not everything. OK then Frank Abagnale, how do you go about forging one half of something that has a long number on and you cant even see |
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Post by urbanflik on Feb 10, 2012 14:04:58 GMT 1
DNA sampling it is then!
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Post by jfury on Feb 10, 2012 15:37:12 GMT 1
It doesnt matter wether someone is known or not know or active or non active as has little relevance (unless a reputable ebay seller with lots of feedback?). You need the PC cert and you need to have an understanding what a banksy print actually looks like.
The easy answer is to pay the premium via a gallery or auction and ensure PC cert is there. You will pretty much always have a fall back in this scenario.
Like anything there is nothing that is fully bullet proof but you can mitigate as much as possible.
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Post by warsawproject on Feb 10, 2012 15:42:24 GMT 1
It doesnt matter wether someone is known or not know or active or non active as has little relevance (unless a reputable ebay seller with lots of feedback?). You need the PC cert and you need to have an understanding what a banksy print actually looks like. The easy answer is to pay the premium via a gallery or auction and ensure PC cert is there. You will pretty much always have a fall back in this scenario. Like anything there is nothing that is fully bullet proof but you can mitigate as much as possible. Would agree there, if i was after a signed GWB or Rude copper etc, i would much rather pay the premium and visit a gallery/auction house!! If you have 10 - 20k to spend on a print then the bit extra for peace of mind shouldn't really hurt you to much! |
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Post by motor on Feb 10, 2012 16:05:59 GMT 1
It doesnt matter wether someone is known or not know or active or non active as has little relevance (unless a reputable ebay seller with lots of feedback?). You need the PC cert and you need to have an understanding what a banksy print actually looks like. The easy answer is to pay the premium via a gallery or auction and ensure PC cert is there. You will pretty much always have a fall back in this scenario. Like anything there is nothing that is fully bullet proof but you can mitigate as much as possible. Would agree there, if i was after a signed GWB or Rude copper etc, i would much rather pay the premium and visit a gallery/auction house!! If you have 10 - 20k to spend on a print then the bit extra for peace of mind shouldn't really hurt you to much! Agree and agree. It is not a guarantee of a genuine art by any means. However just like you said Jfury (regarding Galleries and auction houses) if you know someone or someone is well known to lots of people and galleries you will have a fall back in scenario if things go wrong too. So I would say it is probably worth to pay a bit extra rather than to pay someone who you have no idea who he/she is. And Freerange. Yeah, let's talk about this on a public forum... |
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stevieray101
2 Star Member
still waiting for the new banksy...
Posts: 315
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Post by stevieray101 on Feb 13, 2012 16:00:41 GMT 1
it might seem at bit excessive but also measure the print
i went to buy a grannies once and the guy had taken off 5cm to fit it into a frame, banksy section on the forum has the size of all his work so the info is readily available
apart from the missing 5cm the print was actually mint, but for me it was no deal due to the missing inches
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Post by warsawproject on Feb 13, 2012 17:00:34 GMT 1
it might seem at bit excessive but also measure the print i went to buy a grannies once and the guy had taken off 5cm to fit it into a frame, banksy section on the forum has the size of all his work so the info is readily available apart from the missing 5cm the print was actually mint, but for me it was no deal due to the missing inches A good bit of advise there.. Reminds me of my Donwood... Took it into a frame shop in Warsaw (poland) and the guy trimmed the whole print to within 10mm of the image, thankfully he did not trim up the blind stamp and signature.... His excuse : I wanted to save you framing costs by reducing the frame size, i thought i was doing you a service :-( Was not amused  |
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Post by urbanflik on Feb 13, 2012 18:44:34 GMT 1
thanks Stevieray, nice tip. And nice avatar too  |
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Post by brushstrokes75 on Feb 13, 2012 19:57:35 GMT 1
The whole sheet with COA reminded me of a stunt pulled by a Japanese dealer 20/30 years ago.
The guy was buying legit masterpieces by top artists like Van Gogh, Chagall.... He was buying them at Christies/Sothebys with full provenance and authenticity paperwork.
He was then making a fake or two of the painting. Then he was selling the fake with the paperwork.
A few years later, he was going back to the auction house where he purchased it to resell the real one. Of course they were asking him for paperwork. He was just saying that he purchased the piece at their auction house and he lost the paper but still has the receipt....
Don't think anyone who do that with a Banksy print BUT why not?
Make copies sell with the PC cert and then sell the real one later! (There are some people who don't know s**t or who won't call POW to have the piece registered to them)
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Post by mmmike on Feb 13, 2012 22:56:45 GMT 1
The whole sheet with COA reminded me of a stunt pulled by a Japanese dealer 20/30 years ago. The guy was buying legit masterpieces by top artists like Van Gogh, Chagall.... He was buying them at Christies/Sothebys with full provenance and authenticity paperwork. He was then making a fake or two of the painting. Then he was selling the fake with the paperwork. A few years later, he was going back to the auction house where he purchased it to resell the real one. Of course they were asking him for paperwork. He was just saying that he purchased the piece at their auction house and he lost the paper but still has the receipt.... Don't think anyone who do that with a Banksy print BUT why not? Make copies sell with the PC cert and then sell the real one later! (There are some people who don't know s**t or who won't call POW to have the piece registered to them) don't give people any ideas. I bet some people would try it. |
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stevieray101
2 Star Member
still waiting for the new banksy...
Posts: 315
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Post by stevieray101 on Feb 16, 2012 11:44:15 GMT 1
thanks Stevieray, nice tip. And nice avatar too cheers, I miss WCW and the Monday Night wars. |
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