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Post by Guest on Jun 20, 2011 23:31:35 GMT 1
Mainly because they can't. Why not?. I would have thought Elms would have a list of people who were interested in Parla's work they could email and try and get rid of them to his fans. They could make a few quid out of it. You would be happy, job done. 10% to 20% is they sell the piece they got from me. 50% if they sell the piece they got from the artist. When there's no shortage of work from the artist, why bother selling mine? I guess 30% to 40% is the reason:) |
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Post by artylang on Jun 20, 2011 23:33:05 GMT 1
First of all yes we do agree to disagree. Second, whatever I sell openly is one thing. I could care less, I own my actions and find no problem with them but to put information about me which is private is pretty much as low as it gets for me. Please remove it and we wont have to interact ever again. Otherwise you can be sure I have info information about you to ensure no one ever does business with you again. I never made any of this personal. I was just sharing my feelings. If it were 5 kaws, or mcgees or almost any respected artist i would have said the same thing to any member.
Let me spell out why the galleries didnt want to help you. Do you know how disrespectful and indifferent you come off saying you'll sell any two of five? To his primary gallerist! It's your approach that is off. Sure sell a piece, but act like you at least give a little bit of a s**t. This is all so surprising to me because you always struck me as a much more intelligent person.
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Post by Guest on Jun 20, 2011 23:36:28 GMT 1
Mainly because they can't. Why not?. I would have thought Elms would have a list of people who were interested in Parla's work they could email and try and get rid of them to his fans. They could make a few quid out of it. You would be happy, job done. I think galleries would be keen if it's a continual rising market you buy from said gallery at £100, they make £50 gross you consign it back the following year for £200, and they can sell for £400, all good, and everyone happy. Not so good if the market is not going that way You buy from gallery at £100, they make £50 gross You consign it back a year later, gallery sells for £60, you get back £30. Thats my inexperienced opinion, flame away  |
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Post by Urban Portrait Commissions on Jun 20, 2011 23:36:50 GMT 1
Depends how big the list is?.
Although I understand where your coming from.
A primary dealer such as Elms would surely rather make a little than potentially lose out on a lot in the long run.
Obviously I'm wrong.
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Post by afroken on Jun 20, 2011 23:39:07 GMT 1
No, they should be able to sell at primary as a minimum, which means the seller takes a 20% hit on what they paid. That's tough but hey, it's better than many of the alternatives.
But if you're saying that the gallery knows they can't even sell it at primary price and are worried they might get rumbled, well that's a different matter.
As I said, full of s**t.
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Post by Guest on Jun 20, 2011 23:41:01 GMT 1
Let me spell out why the galleries didnt want to help you. Do you know how disrespectful and indifferent you come off saying you'll sell any two of five? To his primary gallerist! Elms didn't help as they don't sell secondary at all. Italian gallery did try to help and were actually extremely helpful and professional to deal with. US gallery was offered 2 pieces (not 5 as you stated above, so you're playing detective again and getting your facts wrong). They stopped responding after about 7 emails and 3 or 4 phone calls. |
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Post by Harveyn on Jun 20, 2011 23:52:27 GMT 1
Okay folks lets keep the discusion to art related issues with no personal information to be posted by anyone without the consent of the person it relates to.
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Post by highbrow on Jun 21, 2011 0:30:25 GMT 1
AMB, Again amazing works and good luck with the sale, I almost feel like you should repost them here as your thread has now been hit so hard with discussion and not with inquiries or so on about the physical sale of the art, but more the ethics of selling the art.
I will say it again once you pay your hard earned money for it does not matter what you do with it, weather you buy 5 Parlas thinking I will sell 2 down the road and they will offset the cost of the other 3 or if something has come up and you need funds.I dont see how either of those reasons makes you any worse of a person then someone who possible bought two KAWS prints to sell one, either way someone missed out on something regardless of the value.As far as selling your items god bless Myself being in a position where me and my wife and making a new choice I also have had to part with two works one Parla work and I feel bad because I will miss the works , but I dont feel bad because I feel I offended the artist or anything like that.
Also I would like to point out I can verify from another board where I saw these posted that only 2 of the 5 were being offered up as well. And for someone to say it cheapens the work to say pick any 2 of the 5 how so if all 5 are amazing works maybe they are like children he doesnt love one more then the other.
GOOD LUCK WITH THE SALE
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Post by amin on Jun 21, 2011 2:56:41 GMT 1
I probably shouldn't say anything but, that usually means I will. First, amb is a stand up guy. Mainly because he has the same letters in his userid as my real name. But, also because there is nothing a) illegal or b) even immoral about what he is doing. Anyone thinks that they are an expert on art economics is either lying or trying to sell you something. I suggest that everyone just chill out and enjoy this image:  |
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Post by gbh on Jun 21, 2011 3:16:54 GMT 1
my eyeeeeeesssss!
jesus christ, those pics gave me eye cancer
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Post by chaserawr on Jun 21, 2011 3:21:15 GMT 1
dude is that the spice girls?
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Post by highbrow on Jun 21, 2011 4:25:19 GMT 1
Arty if you are so concerned about the works fork up the cash and rescue them from AMB the horrible person he is, you could be a regular prince charming with that move. ( AMB I of course do think you are a horrible person and that part of the comment was made in jest. )
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Post by jB on Jun 21, 2011 5:16:48 GMT 1
Arty if you are so concerned about the works fork up the cash and rescue them from AMD the horrible person he is, you could be a regular prince charming with that move. ( AMD I of course do think you are a horrible person and that part of the comment was made in jest. ) AMB, AMB   |
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Post by highbrow on Jun 21, 2011 5:59:53 GMT 1
DAM YOU JB..... I got it correct in the previous post just was doing two things at once....
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Post by swamped on Jun 21, 2011 6:02:14 GMT 1
Sell them at an auction house pay the 40% charge and be done with it. Great pieces!
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Post by Guest on Jun 21, 2011 18:34:53 GMT 1
So why "can't"galleries buy back art from the artists represent?
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Post by curiousgeorge on Jun 21, 2011 19:02:03 GMT 1
So why "can't"galleries buy back art from the artists represent? Because as a rule they squeezed every last penny out of every sale and no going back when you have mugged someone off at that level |
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Post by Guest on Jun 21, 2011 19:28:14 GMT 1
So why "can't"galleries buy back art from the artists represent? Because as a rule they squeezed every last penny out of every sale and no going back when you have mugged someone off at that level I don't know about that. I think they are missing a trick or two Short term blinkered thinking, these guys are meant to be marketeers. Though good if its a get rich, and get out fast kinda thing I suppose |
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Post by saucemoola on Jun 21, 2011 19:31:54 GMT 1
So why "can't"galleries buy back art from the artists represent? Most galleries do a 50% mark up on all originals. Its kind of hard to explain to get customer that you have to offer them less them half on a buy back situation. |
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Post by Guest on Jun 21, 2011 19:45:15 GMT 1
So why "can't"galleries buy back art from the artists represent? Most galleries do a 50% mark up on all originals. Its kind of hard to explain to get customer that you have to offer them less them half on a buy back situation. I don't know about that. I think they should still offer it. Even if they offer 40% of purchase cost, the customer then has the choice. Its got to be better than just closing the door on the customer, and letting ebay take over secondary sales. Kinda depressing really, when you think both the artists and buyers of the works are both being hung out to dry. Anyhow back to the land of naivety |
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Post by warmgun on Jun 21, 2011 20:00:06 GMT 1
She's looking in fine form there! I probably shouldn't say anything but, that usually means I will. First, amb is a stand up guy. Mainly because he has the same letters in his userid as my real name. But, also because there is nothing a) illegal or b) even immoral about what he is doing. Anyone thinks that they are an expert on art economics is either lying or trying to sell you something. I suggest that everyone just chill out and enjoy this image: |
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Post by ambrosiabaptism on Jun 21, 2011 21:31:36 GMT 1
Yeah excellent !!! hasn't been a good thread torpedoing round here for a long time. FFS  One interesting thing has come out of this for me and that's the gallery paradox. I am amazed how some people hold galleries with such high esteem. This is really fu-ked up. Someone has really been chowing down on their BS "into the hands of collectors" "custodians of art" "dealing directly" "not for public display" "not for resale". Can we not see that their rhetoric only serves the purpose of the gallery / artist. Not the poor c-unt who's laying down their hard earned cash. supply and demand - make it hard get hold of something by making it difficult to sell. Of course the gallery doesn't want a secondary market ... why? because it in direct competition. They play the game cos sometimes this market drives up prices. WOW ! I was only meant to say you're all idiots and they I go ranting. idiots x |
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Post by saucemoola on Jun 22, 2011 3:37:45 GMT 1
Most galleries do a 50% mark up on all originals. Its kind of hard to explain to get customer that you have to offer them less them half on a buy back situation. I don't know about that. I think they should still offer it. Even if they offer 40% of purchase cost, the customer then has the choice. Its got to be better than just closing the door on the customer, and letting ebay take over secondary sales. Kinda depressing really, when you think both the artists and buyers of the works are both being hung out to dry. Anyhow back to the land of naivety Totally agree with you. Usually with the few commission i have been offered and got a price back on. Its usually 50% less then a gallery esp if your dealing with a l.a. or n.y. gallery. |
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Post by oddkabob on Jun 22, 2011 3:48:18 GMT 1
The cold fact is that galleries are out to make money for the galleries. The artist is out to make money for the artist. A secondary sale doesn't benefit either the gallery or the artist. They don't make money off of it. They possibly lose a future primary sale. They can't control the supply. They can't control the price of the secondary sale. By "placing" artworks (horrible, self-serving term) they sell to people who hopefully won't resell thus keeping the supply entirely in the hands of the gallery and artist.
Another cold fact is that not all galleries 'support' their artists by handling secondary sales. They should if they're truly interested in protecting the career of their artist. Seems Bryce Wolkowitz is this way based on a prior post. And this seems to be moreso with urban/street artists. I know from other collectors and personal experience that with Faile, both LAZ and Perry Rubenstein and Faile have both passed on some nice and easily sellable pieces. Why? It's all about the money to them. Generally 10% is the standard commission for a gallery on a resale. A gallery or artist would rather spend their time selling a primary piece where they get 40%-60%. Seems galleries and artists are only interested in 'protecting' their artists insofar as it will net them a good profit.
Jose Parla in particular seems to be making a special effort to protect his prices. KAWS as well. Even with book signings they only sign to a person's name to prevent secondary sales. For a book! Shepard Fairey is making people sign a contract stating they won't resell for 3 years after purchase. These artists are thinking about their bottom line first, collector second.
In the end what matters is not the collector who pays for the artwork. What matters is the money. Galleries and artists are free to play the market as they choose. But so should the people who actually pay money for the artworks. They shouldn't have to explain themselves. Or fear they're going to be put on a blacklist. And galleries (and artists) shouldn't be seen as giving you a special "opportunity" when you're "allowed" to buy something. Galleries aren't "placing" they're selling no matter how they try to spin it. If galleries and the artists themselves are so concerned about the artist's career they should put their money up and buy these Parlas. At the very least consign them even if it's not the usual profit they're used to.
Unfortunately if you want a Parla at primary you're going to have to jump through the hoops. Let's face it there are many people willing to pay the money and suck it up. And you'll probably feel special once a piece has been bestowed upon you. But let's not kid ourselves any longer. Jose is out to get paid. His galleries are out to make money off of you. And once they have your cash you're on your own.
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Post by motor on Jun 24, 2011 13:18:30 GMT 1
Entertaining thread and great topic regarding galleries and the resales. So why "can't"galleries buy back art from the artists represent? Some do. However I would say it is the case when you buy directly from them. And that's how it should be. As a standard practice - they should instruct you to contact them at any time should you consider selling a piece bought through them. And as Afroken said - they should be able to sell at primary as a minimum, which means the seller takes a 20% hit on what they paid. Absolutely. If not fuc k it, shame and name them. On the other hand I think it is a different case when you bought somewhere else (secondary, directly from the artist or whatever). It is up to them. As Manty said, they will be keen when the market is on the way up however if it's on the way down, no chance. Oddkabob, where did you get your Failes from? And you are right - they are out to get money - Galleries, Artists even us. AMB, good luck with the sale. |
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Post by lifeonwalls on Jun 24, 2011 14:34:40 GMT 1
The Parla's are fantastic, all the best with the sale. With respect to the seller - I don't know how they were acquired but for the sake of discussion if they were direct commissions from Jose and sold at 'friend' prices then I can see where Arty is coming from how it can be poor form to sell them all on now. Again - I'm not saying that is what has happened.  Great discussion though |
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