[giiiant]

Loads of artists change their signatures. As long as he isn't changing them midway through a print run there's no problem imo. Although I admit his new tag doesn't exactly look great, it's still his tag and if anything more appropriate than a standard signature considering that he's a "street artist".

[G-Man]

Who cares what his tag or signature looks like??

Its his tag he can do with it what he likes IMO

[ABC]

Why start another thread?, we've been banging on about this subject for weeks now. What does it matter? Its a signed Banksy for F sake, sorry to be so negative but when I get a tube knowing it has a signed Banksy in it, I dont then look at it a think "crap signature" I look at the image and think "wow", the sig is an added bonus.

[G-Man]

abcollings said:

Why start another thread?, we've been banging on about this subject for weeks now. What does it matter? Its a signed Banksy for F sake, sorry to be so negative but when I get a tube knowing it has a signed Banksy in it, I dont then look at it a think "crap signature" I look at the image and think "wow", the sig is an added bonus.

Totally with you

[leumasdarnley]

Anyone seen Micallef's signature lately like on GIWTBB signing hundreds of prints in a short period of time is going to take its tole. He did sign them I mean they came from POW its not like they are being sold on eBay from some shady cat. Unsigned prints are a lot cheaper maybe if you hate the sig stick with them. In 5 years it will be the norm for Banksy and may create a higher demand for his older work. The guy isn't dumb he's a marketing genius this was for a reason.

[bullet]

he has changed it to stop forgeries.

[ROLLINS]

I think "Banksy" used to be one person, but is now brand "Banksy" and is probably two or three people. (like Warhol's factory)

IMO - the sig is probably done by one of the others.

[ABC]

keepingitreal said:

Point is he has changed it half way through a print run, hasn't he and yes if your happy with any old crap scribbled on the sheet then great, good for you.

He hasn't changed it half way through a print run, each print from the LA series is its own edition in its own right. I do get what your saying though and yes I agree his old signature/tag looked a lot better but it really does not bother me that much.

[bullet]

Think this has been talked about before. In short.

1. If they say 'signed by the artist' and its not = criminal activity, illegal and maybe prison. (illegal to fake signatures)

2. If it is fake = would ruin the whole banksy market and all the prints ever released by POW and LAZ as they cannot be trusted = not worth the business risk.

3. Banksy would not be so lazy. Yes he has assistants, he does not print his own stuff (POW do it). He does sign it and stencil himself (with help holding ladders etc)

[ABC]

I dont think he was saying it was fake, just that it was not to his liking.

[bullet]

matthewcurd said:

IMO - the sig is probably done by one of the others.

That would be suggesting its a fake signature sold by official sources....

which is illegal

[ABC]

matthewcurd said:

I think "Banksy" used to be one person, but is now brand "Banksy" and is probably two or three people. (like Warhol's factory)

IMO - the sig is probably done by one of the others.

At lot of artist have others doing work for them, you can see Laz in one of Banksys utube vids helping out
Hirst, koons etc etc all have big commercial production units but Id like to think regardless of who does the work , the artist will always sign the finished product.

[ROLLINS]

mmm - interesting.

With the whole "nobody knows who banksy is" lark.....

All the text in banksy's book is very witty - but look in Simon Munnery's book also availablr through POW- same wit. I suspect Simon comes up with Banksy's captions for most his stuff.

All I'm saying is that I know think that "Banksy" is such big business now - it has to more than 1 person.

I still like it.

[bullet]

i agree with you rollins, but the original concept and the signature will be banksy.

[ROLLINS]

or should be.

[robo]

Its still Hirst's and Warhol's signatures on all their works, even if someone else made them. I'm sure its the same for Banksy.

[BK83]

matthewcurd said:

mmm - interesting.

With the whole "nobody knows who banksy is" lark.....

All the text in banksy's book is very witty - but look in Simon Munnery's book also availablr through POW- same wit. I suspect Simon comes up with Banksy's captions for most his stuff.

All I'm saying is that I know think that "Banksy" is such big business now - it has to more than 1 person.

I still like it.

All major artists working today emply teams of people! Once you make it big as an artist you become a brand -- it's like any other business! if you start out making silkscreened t-shirts in your basement and they become a big hit and start selling into stores all over the place, then obvoiusly you hire a team to produce more of those t-shirts to keep up with demand. The same is true with artists as they continue to rise in popularity and are eventually signed by more and more galleries globally -- there is major pressure to produce work within sceduled time frames.

A good friend of mine used to paint for Kehinde Wiley (amazing artist -- one of my faves!) until he was recently let go because Kehinde had decided to outsource his paintings to China -- no s**t!! We couldn't believe it! Kehinde now only paints the skin on his figures in his paintings. I s**t you not. True story! As disheartening as that is, it is also the reality of art. Look at how much money is thrown around in the art world -- there is a demand that is needed to be met and can only be done so by employing a team. it usually works like this:

- artist/s comes up with concept
- artist takes to (hired) illustrator who draws and works with colour ideas with his team.
- artist/s select final copy idea and deliver to art assistants
- art assistants paint the piece (from 2-20 people depending on the artist and size, etc.)
from there it is in the hands of varoius gallery peoples art handlers and the artists art handlers ...

Look at Banksy's bronze rat statues, do you think banksy f**king Cast that bronze!?! NO. he came up with an idea and approached a bronze artist who did the moulds and sculpting for him.

Thats just how it is. Art is a business like any other. often what you are buying is a concept piece. which is a lot of what art is and what Hirst is excellent at - Concept art

[motor]

jaypaav said:

All major artists working today emply teams of people! Once you make it big as an artist you become a brand -- it's like any other business! if you start out making silkscreened t-shirts in your basement and they become a big hit and start selling into stores all over the place, then obvoiusly you hire a team to produce more of those t-shirts to keep up with demand. The same is true with artists as they continue to rise in popularity and are eventually signed by more and more galleries globally -- there is major pressure to produce work within sceduled time frames.

A good friend of mine used to paint for Kehinde Wiley (amazing artist -- one of my faves!) until he was recently let go because Kehinde had decided to outsource his paintings to China -- no s**t!! We couldn't believe it! Kehinde now only paints the skin on his figures in his paintings. I s**t you not. True story! As disheartening as that is, it is also the reality of art. Look at how much money is thrown around in the art world -- there is a demand that is needed to be met and can only be done so by employing a team. it usually works like this:

- artist/s comes up with concept
- artist takes to (hired) illustrator who draws and works with colour ideas with his team.
- artist/s select final copy idea and deliver to art assistants
- art assistants paint the piece (from 2-20 people depending on the artist and size, etc.)
from there it is in the hands of varoius gallery peoples art handlers and the artists art handlers ...

Look at Banksy's bronze rat statues, do you think banksy f**king Cast that bronze!?! NO. he came up with an idea and approached a bronze artist who did the moulds and sculpting for him.

Thats just how it is. Art is a business like any other. often what you are buying is a concept piece. which is a lot of what art is and what Hirst is excellent at - Concept art

Great post JayPaav.
+

[ROLLINS]

I doubt Shepard Fairey does any of his OBEY prints anymore - he knocks out 1 a week!!!

[saltandiron]

jaypaav said:

Look at Banksy's bronze rat statues, do you think banksy f**king Cast that bronze!?! NO. he came up with an idea and approached a bronze artist who did the moulds and sculpting for him.

Quite right, the guy who did them also did Faile's bunny boys

He's called Charlie Becker

charliebecker.blogspot.com/2007/02/sculpture-banksy-rat.html

[bullet]

You will find most conceptual artists / designers commission stuff, its all part of the industry and is quite normal at any level.

I do it everyday.

Say if i came up with a concept for a cereal packet. I would do a rough concept (first a sketch then worked up in the proper professional software).

Once this design gets the go ahead, its on to commissioning a typographer to do the type (smooth it out etc /curve it), i would get a photographer to shoot the product and i would get an illustrator to do the drawing.

I art direct the whole thing and make sure all the elements fit together properly.

This is exactly what banksy does.

On the stop and search he would have sketched it, worked it up roughly on photoshop to get the composition right, then he would have employed an illustrator to draw it properly. POW would have printed it and then he signs it.

[dmandpenfold]

this all comes back to something i've said before on a similar thread about artists and teams (might have been about Hirst)

Is the art in the idea or the execution of it? what if you can draw / paint very well but lack imagination or creativity - are you an artist? What if you can't draw / paint but have great ideas and get someone to present them for you, are you the artist then.

If the 'artist' can visualise but cant put it on paper then is there a problem with using someone to illustrate his ideas. Many artists who do very well with their illustrations can't draw in a classical sense but still get their point across very well.

back to the thread, signatures aren't the reason i buy a print, it's a sign of the artists personal involvement, doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it was him. It also sometimes adds monetary value to the print / work but it isnt the reason i buy it, i look at the image, the signature is immaterial

[morrissey1]

I would question first banksy's ability to draw a work like Stop and Search long before I would question whether or not he can sign his own name.....the signature is the m ost authetic element of the piece...it's the only thing you can know for sure he actually did on his own....the rest, could be group effort, could be "borrowing" from others work, etc....

[ABC]

Cut and Paste nowadays, lets face it, that's all he did with the likes of Applause.

[Joe J]

bullet said:

he has changed it to stop forgeries.

Agreed

[mammal2]

This 'new' tag has been around for an age. It aint new. Lots of his work at LA was signed like this. Maybe check your flag...

[G-Man]

Wow I cant believe I got negged for sayin that Banksy can do what he wants and that the tag isn't what's important!!

Some of you need to get out more IMO

Merry bloody Christmas