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Post by Montubu7 on May 20, 2008 8:57:25 GMT 1
you'd think a street artist would have a bit of a tougher skin. you dont get far in life if at the sign of any adversity you turn your back... Depends which street these artists are raised on, seems some were taught the way of life on Sesame street.     ;D |
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Post by Guest on May 20, 2008 9:35:21 GMT 1
Jam is a good guy. The truth is out there.. have to echo this as well. You can decide not to listen but that's your own doing. Don't shoot the messenger and whatever other cliche you want to bring in. |
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Post by Guest on May 20, 2008 9:36:19 GMT 1
Lets get back on track, any chance of some more pics to get me all excited again?
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Post by manchestermike on May 20, 2008 9:50:42 GMT 1
I quite like Hush's work, I wouldn't buy it in print form, but the originals are nice. Having said that I think Jam and Stuey have valid points about the IP issue
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Post by Guest on May 20, 2008 12:37:05 GMT 1
Thanks jam, stuey and all for the heads up.
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Post by arahonomae on May 20, 2008 13:52:16 GMT 1
People should not complain about negative posts, as this forum is a two way system.
It cannot be OK to big up...but not OK to do down, otherwise you just have an advertising forum with nobody pointing out the (in some cases) obvious weaknesses in some work. You need honest opinion just as much as you need innovators and creators.
Think of any art movement and there are only a select few at the top of the tree, however I am sure there were hundreds of artists painting in an impressionists style, pop art style etc. but most have disappeared never to be heard of again.
So it will be with this scene.
To be deriviative can be "post modern" (if you pick the right subject) but can also be just plain copying. A subtle line that is for others to judge.
Let's have some real perspective and healthy debate on this forum and if some people do not think their work can stand it then tough. Keep off. Don't know where else you will flog it though.
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Post by kingkambo on May 20, 2008 20:46:31 GMT 1
This thread is as exciting as the first series of Lost! I haven’t checked out this Forum for a while, mainly because of the Positive/Negative rating thing which I could never really fully embrace…
Some have said that Hush doesn’t produce anything exciting or different; some might say the same for Banksy or Faile? It’s unfair to say he is simply copying the styles of established artists- the GG piece is stunning one of the best images produced in a long while, but I’m not too sure about the Fallen Madonna with the big boobies! The point is you don’t have to like every artist on the scene or every piece they produce, but you should respect the fact that they take the time to join ‘fan forums’ and contribute to the discussion.
Perhaps a PM to the forum administrator about ‘suspicious’ postings would have been more appropriate? I think the forum administrator should investigate this IP hoo-ha further and give its members a definitive answer … but until then let us not make damaging and derogatory accusations which only harm the community as a whole…
I’m looking forward to the Show on the 29th- if the IP thing really bothers you, don’t go it gives people like me the chance to actually buy something!!! I wish the best of luck to both artists and hope the show is a big success.
Neg me if you want, oh that’s right you can’t!!!
Peace out.
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Post by romanywg on May 20, 2008 21:21:52 GMT 1
Good post kingkambo and I totally agree with you on the first series of Lost being really exciting, what has happened to that show?
Oh and also your other comments.
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Post by kingkambo on May 20, 2008 21:36:50 GMT 1
Plus 1 Romany ;-)
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Post by Guest on May 21, 2008 4:41:49 GMT 1
A single artist can easily create three or four usernames on this forum and have gushing "conversations", with himself and about himself. It works even better when the artist also has a few associates willing to join in. The intention is to mislead forum members and sucker them into believing that more people are interested in the artist than is actually the case.
The artist knows these fake conversations are generally sufficient to pique the interest of other forum members (especially those on the lookout for "the next big thing") and may encourage some to purchase his artwork. Kerching! Mission accomplished.
Although it is completely dishonest, perhaps the artist does not see this as being a big deal. He may even congratulate himself on a regular basis for being very clever whilst he remains successful at fooling most of the people here.
The problem is that the deception by the artist harms the integrity and the credibility of both this forum and the street art scene generally. The longer his shenanigans are allowed to continue, the greater the likelihood that (i) his prices remain artificially inflated and volatile, (ii) confidence in the street art scene is shaken and (iii) the street art market implodes. It goes without saying that this is in no one's interest other than the smash-and-grabbers simply here for the short term.
Another consideration is the fact it is the vulnerable members of the street art community that are most often influenced and taken in by shady practices. They are the less experienced collectors who are generally also the youngest and with the least amount of disposable income. It is a particular concern when I hear of forum members indebting themselves on art through personal loans and credit cards. Presumably, these purchases are made in the expectation (possibly created by one of the fake conversations referred to above) that the value of their art will increase over time. If, on the contrary, that value plummets, then those forum members are in the disastrous position of holding negative equity.
--------------------------------
If Banksy.info sets itself out to be a street art forum, then it also has a duty and responsibility to the street art scene and its individual members. This includes Silky or Harveyn exposing and stamping out the practice of people using multiple usernames to promote their undisclosed commercial agendas.
I too would be very interested to hear whether the IP address of Hush does indeed correspond to other usernames on this forum.
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Post by Heavyconsumer on May 21, 2008 5:36:56 GMT 1
I am not Hush and don't own any of his work yet. I also don't know what the hell has ben going on regarding Jam's accusation/claim and don't often read WK. However, in my opinion "Geisha girl" is the possibly best printed image I've seen so far this year by anyone. I loved "Silent Dance" by Choe and there have been some other prints that have turned my head, but this is a stand out piece, which needs no hyping at all. I'm gutted I won't get to see it in the flesh, as I'm much too far away to attend the show.
As for Hush's work being derivative: I think that's a bit of a cheap-shot really. All artists are influenced in one way or another. It's often through their own tastes for the works of others that they forge a personal style of their own. (I recently received a PM from a member here asking if Swoon was Gaia and I think both their works are very reminiscent of Elbow-Toe too - that certainly doesn't mean any of them or their art are any less worthy of praiseor merit imo) In Hush's case it may be Manga, Faile or whatever else that he enjoys looking at. Imo that doesn't make the work any less appealing. It is what it is, either one likes it or not. Personally, I am NOT a Faile fan. I know many of you are. There are a few images of theirs I enjoy, but I would not spend the required sums to own them even if I could, as for similar money there's plenty I enjoy more, in fact I could buy original pieces from some of my favourite artists for the sums you guys dish out on Faile prints. Maybe many of you feel similarly towards Hush's work. It takes all sorts, I enjoy it and would like my eyes fed with more of it! I think it's a great shame if he will no longer be around to present his work to us.
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Post by FilipinoBoxSpringHog on May 21, 2008 5:50:04 GMT 1
"There is no use of talking and no one to blame...."
-B. Dylan
I agree and echo what you've said heavyconsumer. There are a lot of submovements to this movement - it's a natural progression.....those who you are influenced by, influence you. Simple and true.
I also like Hush's work and weather or not the alligations are true matters little to me.
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holden
3 Star Member
Posts: 510
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Post by holden on May 21, 2008 7:05:08 GMT 1
What a blinding thread. Like the sands through the hour glass........
Kinda lost the direction somewhere in the middle and may of missed it? So Anthony how do I go about getting GG if I'm overseas?
If true, at least 3 or more prints are gonna be snapped up by the Hush's, not leaving many for those that would really like one......is it 1 print per person or per personality??
Cheers
Holden and his polyphrenic friends.....ssshhh mother, not now. I'm typing!
I'm having red, you can have a blue one.
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Post by pezlow on May 21, 2008 7:51:24 GMT 1
Lol holden. Some good points made by Kiki. HC I am at a loss to understand your post - you like Hush but you don't like Faile. WTF That's like preferring a rolex from Petaling Street market rather than the real deal.  |
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Post by Curley on May 21, 2008 9:16:49 GMT 1
A single artist can easily create three or four usernames on this forum and have gushing "conversations", with himself and about himself. It works even better when the artist also has a few associates willing to join in. The intention is to mislead forum members and sucker them into believing that more people are interested in the artist than is actually the case. The artist knows these fake conversations are generally sufficient to pique the interest of other forum members (especially those on the lookout for "the next big thing") and may encourage some to purchase his artwork. Kerching! Mission accomplished. Although it is completely dishonest, perhaps the artist does not see this as being a big deal. He may even congratulate himself on a regular basis for being very clever whilst he remains successful at fooling most of the people here. The problem is that the deception by the artist harms the integrity and the credibility of both this forum and the street art scene generally. The longer his shenanigans are allowed to continue, the greater the likelihood that (i) his prices remain artificially inflated and volatile, (ii) confidence in the street art scene is shaken and (iii) the street art market implodes. It goes without saying that this is in no one's interest other than the smash-and-grabbers simply here for the short term. Another consideration is the fact it is the vulnerable members of the street art community that are most often influenced and taken in by shady practices. They are the less experienced collectors who are generally also the youngest and with the least amount of disposable income. It is a particular concern when I hear of forum members indebting themselves on art through personal loans and credit cards. Presumably, these purchases are made in the expectation (possibly created by one of the fake conversations referred to above) that the value of their art will increase over time. If, on the contrary, that value plummets, then those forum members are in the disastrous position of holding negative equity. -------------------------------- If Banksy.info sets itself out to be a street art forum, then it also has a duty and responsibility to the street art scene and its individual members. This includes Silky or Harveyn exposing and stamping out the practice of people using multiple usernames to promote their undisclosed commercial agendas. I too would be very interested to hear whether the IP address of Hush does indeed correspond to other usernames on this forum. Very interesting post that i think requires a reply one way or another rather than sweeping the issue under the carpet or maybe there's an elephant in the room. |
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Post by Guest on May 21, 2008 9:30:20 GMT 1
jesus!!!
Seid i just got my forgive print that i brought from you back from the printers (shhhhhhhh yes its me !) looks great thanks.
so are you over for the show?
beer?
god there are so many children on this forum WK is far more civilised
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Post by Guest on May 21, 2008 9:32:35 GMT 1
must say I agree with Curley here. Too often it's "now lets talk about the art for sale" and not the issues behind the sale of the art which is what jam was initially bringing up for discussion.
Sure I muddied the water via the derivative/banal comments (which, btw, were justified) however, the larger issue is claims of blatant market manipulation which indeed are serious and, as kiki says, for the integrity of the scene should be addressed. Sure, everyone has an agenda but not everyone has multiple accounts to make it happen.
Sheesh... the number of times this issue is mentioned and then ignored makes me think I am talking to myself... now, to log in as Curley and write a response.
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Post by Opus Underground on May 21, 2008 9:36:26 GMT 1
I wasn't planning on commenting on this thread even though it's one that I started as it seemed to be simply degenerating into a slanging match  But I just want to say that Hush's talent is obvious and I would invite everybody who has criticized him or his work in the past to come along on the 29th and see the work in the flesh and then make a decision if you still don't like it then fair enough but don't jump on a bandwagon! Drop me an email at info@opusunderground.com All the best, Anthony |
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Post by Guest on May 21, 2008 9:44:24 GMT 1
i dont see how this is any sort of "slanging match" tbh. Putting my trite comments about Hush work aside, the discussion has been focussed towards integrity and feedback is being sought from Silky who, as kiki points out, does have a duty of care to maintain. Now Anthony, I appreciate your position as an employee with a financial interest in the matter and the constant reassurances that the work is quality etc but the persistent reposting of the invitation to see for ourselves, however genuine it may be is exactly the sort of gloss which is covering the issue that Silky has been asked to address. Moreover Hush too could comment as he clearly hasnt left the board but has not addressed well founded claims on this thread that he is stikadude. I swear this IS like talking to myself.... I wasn't planning on commenting on this thread even though it's one that I started as it seemed to be simply degenerating into a slanging match |
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Post by Copyright on May 21, 2008 10:03:02 GMT 1
It may come as a massive surprise to some of you, but a lot of artists paint because they enjoy painting. Theirs no agenda or conspiracy
Ive been stenciling now for about 10 years and painting for longer, ive sacrificed a lot to be able to keep doing it, but do it because i love it.
This thread was a good place set up by us to give an advanced preview of releases, not somewhere to make prints sell faster, if we wanted the prints sell faster they wouldn't be limited to 1 per person, wed just let anybody buy as many prints as they wanted. We hoped that people would be able to see whats on offer before release so they wouldn't have to make an on the spot decision, and they'd get the prints they wanted.
Hope everybody does manage to get the prints they want,
see some of you on the night, still bricking it.
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Post by pezlow on May 21, 2008 10:11:34 GMT 1
Copyright I don't think anyone is questioning your character or integrity. I'm sure the show will be a great success I and wish you (and hush) the best of luck with it.
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Post by Guest on May 21, 2008 10:11:41 GMT 1
A single artist can easily create three or four usernames on this forum and have gushing "conversations", with himself and about himself. It works even better when the artist also has a few associates willing to join in. The intention is to mislead forum members and sucker them into believing that more people are interested in the artist than is actually the case. The artist knows these fake conversations are generally sufficient to pique the interest of other forum members (especially those on the lookout for "the next big thing") and may encourage some to purchase his artwork. Kerching! Mission accomplished. Although it is completely dishonest, perhaps the artist does not see this as being a big deal. He may even congratulate himself on a regular basis for being very clever whilst he remains successful at fooling most of the people here. The problem is that the deception by the artist harms the integrity and the credibility of both this forum and the street art scene generally. The longer his shenanigans are allowed to continue, the greater the likelihood that (i) his prices remain artificially inflated and volatile, (ii) confidence in the street art scene is shaken and (iii) the street art market implodes. It goes without saying that this is in no one's interest other than the smash-and-grabbers simply here for the short term. Another consideration is the fact it is the vulnerable members of the street art community that are most often influenced and taken in by shady practices. They are the less experienced collectors who are generally also the youngest and with the least amount of disposable income. It is a particular concern when I hear of forum members indebting themselves on art through personal loans and credit cards. Presumably, these purchases are made in the expectation (possibly created by one of the fake conversations referred to above) that the value of their art will increase over time. If, on the contrary, that value plummets, then those forum members are in the disastrous position of holding negative equity. -------------------------------- If Banksy.info sets itself out to be a street art forum, then it also has a duty and responsibility to the street art scene and its individual members. This includes Silky or Harveyn exposing and stamping out the practice of people using multiple usernames to promote their undisclosed commercial agendas. I too would be very interested to hear whether the IP address of Hush does indeed correspond to other usernames on this forum. Again all interesting points, but I feel the real issue here is as always being clouded by money and greed, and ultimately the talent of the artist is overlooked. Surely the only person who can be blamed for being taken in by hype surrounding an artist is the individual that buys. If you read a thread that is showing great support and interest in an artist, and then go and buy with the intention of investing, and the art subseqeuntly is worthless then it is the buyer's responsiblity. No-one is forced into buying, and whilst I totally agree that there ar "smash and grabbers" the bigger problem here is indivuals greed. Ultimately you've got a situation where lots of young people see a get rich quick schemes, and overlook the risks involved. This "something for nothing" attitude is a direct kick back from the 80's. So whilst there is a repsonsibilty to the veracity of members / posts you can blame no one but yourself if you get taken in by these things |
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Post by Curley on May 21, 2008 10:17:53 GMT 1
must say I agree with Curley here. Too often it's "now lets talk about the art for sale" and not the issues behind the sale of the art which is what jam was initially bringing up for discussion. Sure I muddied the water via the derivative/banal comments (which, btw, were justified) however, the larger issue is claims of blatant market manipulation which indeed are serious and, as kiki says, for the integrity of the scene should be addressed. Sure, everyone has an agenda but not everyone has multiple accounts to make it happen. Sheesh... the number of times this issue is mentioned and then ignored makes me think I am talking to myself... now, to log in as Curley and write a response. Very true as we have never been seen in the same room Patrick i fear for this forum when questions like this are not addressed in a speedy manner. Either the IP's are the same or they are not... |
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Post by Montubu7 on May 21, 2008 10:24:37 GMT 1
It would be nice for clarification on the IP issue silky?
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Post by Guest on May 21, 2008 13:00:55 GMT 1
Silky?
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Post by timba82 on May 21, 2008 13:15:54 GMT 1
silky?
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Post by Curley on May 21, 2008 13:31:30 GMT 1
Well the silence says it all to me.  |
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Post by skylarkin on May 21, 2008 14:35:15 GMT 1
It would be nice for clarification on the IP issue silky? IP addresses are used by all ISPs as a broadcast address. Lets say that you belong to Ashols On Line. There IP range could be from 222.213.234.234 - 222.213.235.234 of those addresses they will have a broadcast address limited to proberly 50. Each time you connect (even with broadband) you will broadcast from one of these IP addresses. The same will go for Orange, Sky, bethere..ect ect. The more popular the ISP the more members it has, the more members will broadcast from the same dynamic IP address range. The only way you could consistantly broadcast from a single IP is if you ask and pay for (normally £5 a month) for a static IP address. If over a matter of months the same IP address is being used then yes that user/users could be on the same network using the same IP address. If you notice one or too times that they are coming from the same address but not always, it proberly points to them using the same ISP from a dynamic IP range. <my 2 pence> |
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Post by Dellboyy on May 21, 2008 15:11:43 GMT 1
Add to that if you're behind a large company / university they may well have a single static ip address, meaning anyone behind this network would appear to have the same ip address.
I for example often access this forum at work, along with 2-3 other people. A few times i've had a forum conversation with another guy from work, so from an admin point of view we would have had the same ip, and could have been accused of being the same person.
Also if somebody really wanted to fake a second account there are plenty of ways of faking your ip address... which all basically means in my opinion that an ip address is a very unreliable way of tracking a single user.
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Post by stuey09 on May 21, 2008 17:12:45 GMT 1
Really, so the fact that 4 'personalities' were posting from a single IP address is probably a pure coincidence. Thank goodness for that.
Again, I don't give a s**t about someone hyping up an artists work, this is par for the course. I piped in because another forum members integrity was being called into question.
However, I find it very sad that the Administrator on here hasn't responded to several reasonable requests to clarify matters.
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