[iamzero]

Rex Kwon Doh...

[tab1]

Oct 11, 2020 3:33:43 GMT 1 anodyne13 said:

Wow this escalated quickly. These prints obviously existed so they are real and there are/will be fakes (certainly seen fake rats floating around) but with something like this one will have to make their own determination on provenance. Not sure why people are arguing about what people should and shouldn’t pay. If these were authenticated pest control screenprints they would be worth substantially more, so the lack of pest control COA on these is already factored in to some extent.

Exactly ,if allocated a certificate , 20-30k most likely so in comparison a cheap
Way to
Own a banksy screenprint

[tab1]

Oct 11, 2020 2:48:01 GMT 1 @boxillrob said:

Oct 11, 2020 2:43:47 GMT 1 derivitive said:

OK. Keep buying Banksy tat and we will see who is doing better in 5 years.

Let me know how those Graffiti Prints releases work out for you. 

Usually good for 3 months after a release then a steady flat spot or slow decline until the next vault sale to
Pump things up 👀😬

[Complex iCom]

Regarding authenticating these GDP prints and faking them.

I personally don’t think provenance is actually necessary. An ‘educated’ eye can tell instantly whether the print in front of you is real or not. I’ve worked on large complex silkscreen prints with Coriander Studio, K2 and other smaller studios, and a number of factors regarding the authenticity of these prints is very clear, if you understand silkscreen printing and have been around these prints.

The paper. Yes, it’s just a type of news print, or make ready sheets, the sheets used to prepare the screen and the amount of ink on it, before you start printing on the actual paper for the edition. Artists and printers usually screw these up and they are recycled. The paper is typical but the reaction to the paper by the ink is really quite unpredictable. Some prints are very ‘wavy’ because of the moisture in the ink crinkling the paper as it dries, causing that debossed quality. This would be tricky to get the same, although probably doable by trial and error. The ink also has a shine or reflective quality, that would also need to be matched, again difficult.

The details in the artwork. I genuinely believe the very fine details in these prints are not reproducible, the smallest details are simply too small. If you look extremely closely by eye or with a loop, the details, ie, the complex edges and tiny printed splashes would be impossible to replicate exactly. The only way is to have an original print, scan or photograph it, then go through the whole process to actually print them, and I personally don’t think the details in the image could be perfectly replicated, they are simply too fine or small. These details come from Banksy spraying the processing film, through his stencil, then exposing that film onto the screen, wow, what a great idea! Yes, you may buy a fake, but it’s like buying an unbelievably well made fake Rolex. A Rolex expert would take one look at it and say fake! You have to become the expert yourself, and it’s quite easy once you know what to look for.

I bought a rat from a school boy (and his Dad) and have used it as my go to piece to authenticate other GDP rats, and I haven’t seen a fake yet, only silly replicas. Now that doesn’t mean fakes aren’t out there, any blurred images that don’t show details clearly in close-up should be avoided. Forum members who actually received these prints have posted close-up detail shots, they can be used to compare with potential purchases.

I work with a Haring expert and he often makes me laugh when he’s shown a fake Haring. He says, ‘it’s fake’ in two seconds, usually to the horror of the owner or ‘seller’. An expert eye is your provenance.

I think these will always be desirable as they are prints that use the same screen, the same ink, and have been printed by the same artist as the final editioned works. And yes, artists do stand next to the printer and get involved with every single print coming off the press, including the make ready sheets. Some artists also like to be present or have photographic proof of those same screens being destroyed after the print run is completed.

To me the fine details in these prints are really rather lovely.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 2:43:47 GMT 1 derivitive said:

Oct 11, 2020 2:42:10 GMT 1 @boxillrob said:

Your opinions are irrelevant. Go and buy some Barrie J Smith. 

OK. Keep buying Banksy tat and we will see who is doing better in 5 years.

This is a really odd argument. Anything by Banksy acquired in the last few years is already worth vastly more than it was. I reckon the £40 I've spent on Banksy "tat" is now worth somewhere in the region of £5k.

2 x Peckham Rock - Bought for £3.98, now worth around £500
Palestine poster - Free at WTM, now worth around £300
Forgive Us... poster - Bought for £35, now worth around £500
Thrower giveaway print - Free, now worth around £4k

There isn't another artist with anything like that trajectory and it's very unlikely there will be another in the next five years. Thinking these bits are tat is one thing, and fair enough, but thinking any other current artist is likely to surpass Banksy is mad.

And COAs really aren't a big deal to most people. I think, at most, 10% of prints I've bought have come with a COA. 

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 12:14:13 GMT 1 @whatilike said:

Oct 11, 2020 2:43:47 GMT 1 derivitive said:

OK. Keep buying Banksy tat and we will see who is doing better in 5 years.

This is a really odd argument. Anything Banksy acquired in the last few years is already worth vastly more than it was. I reckon the £40 I've spent on Banksy "tat" is now worth somewhere in the region of £5k.

2 x Peckham Rock - Bought for £3.98, now worth around £500
Palestine poster - Free at WTM, now worth around £300
Forgive Us... poster - Bought for £35, now worth around £500
Thrower giveaway print - Free, now worth around £4k

There isn't another artist with anything like that trajectory and it's very unlikely there will be another in the next five years. Thinking these bits are tat is one thing, and fair enough, but thinking any other current artist is likely to surpass Banksy is mad.

And COAs really aren't a big deal to most people. I think, at most, 10% of prints I've bought have come with a COA. 

Is the thrower print yours or your kids?

[iamzero]

Are you asking on the behalf of HMRC?

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 12:59:16 GMT 1 iamzero said:

Are you asking on the behalf of HMRC?

Na. Just grown men dribbling over some profit and hyping up prices for prints intended for their kids.

A little embarrassing really bud.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 12:50:28 GMT 1 @jamesrodriguez said:

Oct 11, 2020 12:14:13 GMT 1 @whatilike said:

This is a really odd argument. Anything Banksy acquired in the last few years is already worth vastly more than it was. I reckon the £40 I've spent on Banksy "tat" is now worth somewhere in the region of £5k.

2 x Peckham Rock - Bought for £3.98, now worth around £500
Palestine poster - Free at WTM, now worth around £300
Forgive Us... poster - Bought for £35, now worth around £500
Thrower giveaway print - Free, now worth around £4k

There isn't another artist with anything like that trajectory and it's very unlikely there will be another in the next five years. Thinking these bits are tat is one thing, and fair enough, but thinking any other current artist is likely to surpass Banksy is mad.

And COAs really aren't a big deal to most people. I think, at most, 10% of prints I've bought have come with a COA. 

Is the thrower print yours or your kids?

I don't have any kids. The rat prints were given to kids throughout the show. The Thrower was given out on the last day, to anyone.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 13:01:07 GMT 1 @jamesrodriguez said:

Oct 11, 2020 12:59:16 GMT 1 iamzero said:

Are you asking on the behalf of HMRC?

Na. Just grown men dribbling over some profit and hyping up prices for prints intended for their kids.

A little embarrassing really bud.

You're wrong on your facts, bud. 

And no hyping here. None of the items I mentioned are for sale, nor will they be unless my circumstances change. All the values I listed are based on verifiable sold prices or current sales on eBay. 

[artlife11]

Oct 11, 2020 11:48:16 GMT 1 Complex iCom said:

Regarding authenticating these GDP prints and faking them.

I personally don’t think provenance is actually necessary. An ‘educated’ eye can tell instantly whether the print in front of you is real or not. I’ve worked on large complex silkscreen prints with Coriander Studio, K2 and other smaller studios, and a number of factors regarding the authenticity of these prints is very clear, if you understand silkscreen printing and have been around these prints.

The paper. Yes, it’s just a type of news print, or make ready sheets, the sheets used to prepare the screen and the amount of ink on it, before you start printing on the actual paper for the edition. Artists and printers usually screw these up and they are recycled. The paper is typical but the reaction to the paper by the ink is really quite unpredictable. Some prints are very ‘wavy’ because of the moisture in the ink crinkling the paper as it dries, causing that debossed quality. This would be tricky to get the same, although probably doable by trial and error. The ink also has a shine or reflective quality, that would also need to be matched, again difficult.

The details in the artwork. I genuinely believe the very fine details in these prints are not reproducible, the smallest details are simply too small. If you look extremely closely by eye or with a loop, the details, ie, the complex edges and tiny printed splashes would be impossible to replicate exactly. The only way is to have an original print, scan or photograph it, then go through the whole process to actually print them, and I personally don’t think the details in the image could be perfectly replicated, they are simply too fine or small. These details come from Banksy spraying the processing film, through his stencil, then exposing that film onto the screen, wow, what a great idea! Yes, you may buy a fake, but it’s like buying an unbelievably well made fake Rolex. A Rolex expert would take one look at it and say fake! You have to become the expert yourself, and it’s quite easy once you know what to look for.

I bought a rat from a school boy (and his Dad) and have used it as my go to piece to authenticate other GDP rats, and I haven’t seen a fake yet, only silly replicas. Now that doesn’t mean fakes aren’t out there, any blurred images that don’t show details clearly in close-up should be avoided. Forum members who actually received these prints have posted close-up detail shots, they can be used to compare with potential purchases.

I work with a Haring expert and he often makes me laugh when he’s shown a fake Haring. He says, ‘it’s fake’ in two seconds, usually to the horror of the owner or ‘seller’. An expert eye is your provenance.

I think these will always be desirable as they are prints that use the same screen, the same ink, and have been printed by the same artist as the final editioned works. And yes, artists do stand next to the printer and get involved with every single print coming off the press, including the make ready sheets. Some artists also like to be present or have photographic proof of those same screens being destroyed after the print run is completed.

To me the fine details in these prints are really rather lovely.

Great post between some rubbish.

[telecine]

Oct 11, 2020 11:48:16 GMT 1 Complex iCom said:

Regarding authenticating these GDP prints and faking them.

I personally don’t think provenance is actually necessary. An ‘educated’ eye can tell instantly whether the print in front of you is real or not. I’ve worked on large complex silkscreen prints with Coriander Studio, K2 and other smaller studios, and a number of factors regarding the authenticity of these prints is very clear, if you understand silkscreen printing and have been around these prints.

The paper. Yes, it’s just a type of news print, or make ready sheets, the sheets used to prepare the screen and the amount of ink on it, before you start printing on the actual paper for the edition. Artists and printers usually screw these up and they are recycled. The paper is typical but the reaction to the paper by the ink is really quite unpredictable. Some prints are very ‘wavy’ because of the moisture in the ink crinkling the paper as it dries, causing that debossed quality. This would be tricky to get the same, although probably doable by trial and error. The ink also has a shine or reflective quality, that would also need to be matched, again difficult.

The details in the artwork. I genuinely believe the very fine details in these prints are not reproducible, the smallest details are simply too small. If you look extremely closely by eye or with a loop, the details, ie, the complex edges and tiny printed splashes would be impossible to replicate exactly. The only way is to have an original print, scan or photograph it, then go through the whole process to actually print them, and I personally don’t think the details in the image could be perfectly replicated, they are simply too fine or small. These details come from Banksy spraying the processing film, through his stencil, then exposing that film onto the screen, wow, what a great idea! Yes, you may buy a fake, but it’s like buying an unbelievably well made fake Rolex. A Rolex expert would take one look at it and say fake! You have to become the expert yourself, and it’s quite easy once you know what to look for.

I bought a rat from a school boy (and his Dad) and have used it as my go to piece to authenticate other GDP rats, and I haven’t seen a fake yet, only silly replicas. Now that doesn’t mean fakes aren’t out there, any blurred images that don’t show details clearly in close-up should be avoided. Forum members who actually received these prints have posted close-up detail shots, they can be used to compare with potential purchases.

I work with a Haring expert and he often makes me laugh when he’s shown a fake Haring. He says, ‘it’s fake’ in two seconds, usually to the horror of the owner or ‘seller’. An expert eye is your provenance.

I think these will always be desirable as they are prints that use the same screen, the same ink, and have been printed by the same artist as the final editioned works. And yes, artists do stand next to the printer and get involved with every single print coming off the press, including the make ready sheets. Some artists also like to be present or have photographic proof of those same screens being destroyed after the print run is completed.

To me the fine details in these prints are really rather lovely.

A voice of reason.

[iamzero]

I dressed up as wee Jimmy Krankie to get mine only to find out they were handing them out to anyone on the final Sunday. I enjoyed myself anyway.

[tab1]

Oct 11, 2020 11:48:16 GMT 1 Complex iCom said:

Regarding authenticating these GDP prints and faking them.

I personally don’t think provenance is actually necessary. An ‘educated’ eye can tell instantly whether the print in front of you is real or not. I’ve worked on large complex silkscreen prints with Coriander Studio, K2 and other smaller studios, and a number of factors regarding the authenticity of these prints is very clear, if you understand silkscreen printing and have been around these prints.

The paper. Yes, it’s just a type of news print, or make ready sheets, the sheets used to prepare the screen and the amount of ink on it, before you start printing on the actual paper for the edition. Artists and printers usually screw these up and they are recycled. The paper is typical but the reaction to the paper by the ink is really quite unpredictable. Some prints are very ‘wavy’ because of the moisture in the ink crinkling the paper as it dries, causing that debossed quality. This would be tricky to get the same, although probably doable by trial and error. The ink also has a shine or reflective quality, that would also need to be matched, again difficult.

The details in the artwork. I genuinely believe the very fine details in these prints are not reproducible, the smallest details are simply too small. If you look extremely closely by eye or with a loop, the details, ie, the complex edges and tiny printed splashes would be impossible to replicate exactly. The only way is to have an original print, scan or photograph it, then go through the whole process to actually print them, and I personally don’t think the details in the image could be perfectly replicated, they are simply too fine or small. These details come from Banksy spraying the processing film, through his stencil, then exposing that film onto the screen, wow, what a great idea! Yes, you may buy a fake, but it’s like buying an unbelievably well made fake Rolex. A Rolex expert would take one look at it and say fake! You have to become the expert yourself, and it’s quite easy once you know what to look for.

I bought a rat from a school boy (and his Dad) and have used it as my go to piece to authenticate other GDP rats, and I haven’t seen a fake yet, only silly replicas. Now that doesn’t mean fakes aren’t out there, any blurred images that don’t show details clearly in close-up should be avoided. Forum members who actually received these prints have posted close-up detail shots, they can be used to compare with potential purchases.

I work with a Haring expert and he often makes me laugh when he’s shown a fake Haring. He says, ‘it’s fake’ in two seconds, usually to the horror of the owner or ‘seller’. An expert eye is your provenance.

I think these will always be desirable as they are prints that use the same screen, the same ink, and have been printed by the same artist as the final editioned works. And yes, artists do stand next to the printer and get involved with every single print coming off the press, including the make ready sheets. Some artists also like to be present or have photographic proof of those same screens being destroyed after the print run is completed.

To me the fine details in these prints are really rather lovely.

Quoted similar Since the release , a few refuse to take in facts , some are just annoyed / jealous they missed out as of their thoughts at the release that they are only for kids/worthless/free items etc but the market clearly states otherwise
As time goes on , the higher the value , the greater the avid collector will purchase and they will look at the finer details As mentioned the paper and ink etc more people will have access to confirmed genuine items picked up in person to compare with as a few have shareD pics here when seeking on the open market , can clearly see the difference between a genuine item and a fake
Would say these are harder to fake than some of the original prints ,
Also it has been known for pow fakes to be sold with a genuine certificate so A certificate does not always exclude a sale of a fake

[Sir Ruddington]

COMPLEXICOM : Agree with 98% of your statement however, history has shown forgery occurs everywhere a penny can be made and far more complex items have been forged than these things. You even note that a bit of trial and error would accomplish it with these leaflets.

To the people on here fighting the notion that these might not hold value over time, I get it. You own one and don't want to be told anything negative about it. There is a limit to any market and eventually all things become oversaturated when supply increases. One day, there will be more Banksy merchandise(OG's, prints, posters, flyers, stickers, walls, catalogues, t-shirts, leaflets,) than there will be buyers. What, if anything will hold current values then?

As a person who always has a collection of some sort on the go, I have fallen victim in many cases to inflated markets and crashes and this Banksy rise has all the markers of those. I hope it does not happen but will not be surprised if it does. No malice intended with this post, it's only my experience collecting various things for 40 years. Getting angry or calling people jealous for a valid viewpoint is not cool.

NOBODY WANTS THIS MARKET TO CRASH. The possibility DOES exist. And if/when it does, what will suffer first - documented and authenticated pieces by the official body in said field, or the ephemera that may be forged.

[iamzero]

What market did you hold on to for too long dude?

[shanev999]

Wonder how much this will make on the bay

[Dice]

I think history has shown that banksy is an expert at limiting his market

[Icesay]

Having read every single post about the GDP free prints as it played out, it's quite clear to me only a few people knew what they were talking about. Lots of noise and conjecture but very little insight or understanding. Talk up, talk down....whatever. Fake or real. Nothing material is actually worth anything, it's your measure of self worth that matters. I spent £700 buying the set of prints from some money grabbers at the time, I wondered what the hell i was doing. Should I feel clever now they can be sold for a lot more? In truth it's wrong to feel I am clever, or know the market.
Profiting from someone's good will and ability to connect....Why is art important? Well, probably because for a moment, it let's us imagine, we are more than just a rat. We are not.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 18:57:38 GMT 1 Icesay said:

Having read every single post about the GDP free prints as it played out, it's quite clear to me only a few people knew what they were talking about. Lots of noise and conjecture but very little insight or understanding. Talk up, talk down....whatever. Fake or real. Nothing material is actually worth anything, it's your measure of self worth that matters. I spent £700 buying the set of prints from some money grabbers at the time, I wondered what the hell i was doing. Should I feel clever now they can be sold for a lot more? In truth it's wrong to feel I am clever, or know the market.
Profiting from someone's good will and ability to connect....Why is art important? Well, probably because for a moment, it let's us imagine, we are more than just a rat. We are not.

WOW! So deep and insightful. 

You should sell the entire set to me for £700 and self flagellate for having made a profit. 

[lacklisted]

So glad I kept my Throwers and Rats. At the time travelling to Croydon seemed a big deal for a free give-away print... how wrong was I !

[Nuno]

Oct 11, 2020 19:22:20 GMT 1 lacklisted said:

So glad I kept my Throwers and Rats. At the time travelling to Croydon seemed a big deal for a free give-away print... how wrong was I !

Presumably you meant to say ‘you travelled to Croydon to view the ‘show’ and the throwers and rats were a nice bonus’ 😉

[lacklisted]

Oct 11, 2020 19:30:40 GMT 1 Nuno said:

Oct 11, 2020 19:22:20 GMT 1 lacklisted said:

So glad I kept my Throwers and Rats. At the time travelling to Croydon seemed a big deal for a free give-away print... how wrong was I !

Presumably you meant to say ‘you travelled to Croydon to view the ‘show’ and the throwers and rats were a nice bonus’ 😉

Spot on. 

[Sir Ruddington]

Oct 11, 2020 14:40:28 GMT 1 iamzero said:

What market did you hold on to for too long dude?

Comic books, sports cards, sports collectibles, F1 and racing miniatures, other artists.... These were the things I put a significant(to me) amount of money in.  There are dozens of other collections as well but not nearly as dear as those.  The only constant among them was my youth and naivety. 

The one thing I learned with age and experience was to buy older, rarer pieces and preferably with rock solid provenance.  Chasing the latest and greatest and paying top of the market money was always a disaster in hindsight.  I equate today's Banksy market as being at its peak with crazy money being thrown at anything remotely associated with him/her. If you have an endless cash flow - got for it.  But now is not the time to sell the farm to buy a print or postcard IMO.

I do sincerely hope I am wrong.  If these flyers hold their current value, that's good new to me and anybody else holding "Banksy stock".  I am only trying to inject some reality in these heady times.    

PS. Anybody want to buy some cheap Comic books, sports cards, sports collectibles, F1 and racing miniatures?

[Icesay]

Oct 11, 2020 19:05:59 GMT 1 @boxillrob said:

Oct 11, 2020 18:57:38 GMT 1 Icesay said:

Having read every single post about the GDP free prints as it played out, it's quite clear to me only a few people knew what they were talking about. Lots of noise and conjecture but very little insight or understanding. Talk up, talk down....whatever. Fake or real. Nothing material is actually worth anything, it's your measure of self worth that matters. I spent £700 buying the set of prints from some money grabbers at the time, I wondered what the hell i was doing. Should I feel clever now they can be sold for a lot more? In truth it's wrong to feel I am clever, or know the market.
Profiting from someone's good will and ability to connect....Why is art important? Well, probably because for a moment, it let's us imagine, we are more than just a rat. We are not.

WOW! So deep and insightful. 

You should sell the entire set to me for £700 and self flagellate for having made a profit. 

Sorry for giving a shit. It's clear you don't. Stay happy man.

[Icesay]

Oct 11, 2020 19:05:59 GMT 1 @boxillrob said:

Oct 11, 2020 18:57:38 GMT 1 Icesay said:

Having read every single post about the GDP free prints as it played out, it's quite clear to me only a few people knew what they were talking about. Lots of noise and conjecture but very little insight or understanding. Talk up, talk down....whatever. Fake or real. Nothing material is actually worth anything, it's your measure of self worth that matters. I spent £700 buying the set of prints from some money grabbers at the time, I wondered what the hell i was doing. Should I feel clever now they can be sold for a lot more? In truth it's wrong to feel I am clever, or know the market.
Profiting from someone's good will and ability to connect....Why is art important? Well, probably because for a moment, it let's us imagine, we are more than just a rat. We are not.

WOW! So deep and insightful. 

You should sell the entire set to me for £700 and self flagellate for having made a profit. 

Oh and also I paid £700 so if I sold to you I wouldn't make a profit. Perhaps read before posting. 🤣😅😆

[tab1]

Oct 11, 2020 19:35:05 GMT 1 Sir Ruddington said:

Oct 11, 2020 14:40:28 GMT 1 iamzero said:

What market did you hold on to for too long dude?

Comic books, sports cards, sports collectibles, F1 and racing miniatures, other artists.... These were the things I put a significant(to me) amount of money in.  There are dozens of other collections as well but not nearly as dear as those.  The only constant among them was my youth and naivety. 

The one thing I learned with age and experience was to buy older, rarer pieces and preferably with rock solid provenance.  Chasing the latest and greatest and paying top of the market money was always a disaster in hindsight.  I equate today's Banksy market as being at its peak with crazy money being thrown at anything remotely associated with him/her. If you have an endless cash flow - got for it.  But now is not the time to sell the farm to buy a print or postcard IMO.

I do sincerely hope I am wrong.  If these flyers hold their current value, that's good new to me and anybody else holding "Banksy stock".  I am only trying to inject some reality in these heady times.    

PS. Anybody want to buy some cheap Comic books, sports cards, sports collectibles, F1 and racing miniatures?

Not quite at peak yet as we have not hit these levels yet

www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2017/12/12/bitcoin-investors-mortgages/amp/

[tab1]

Oct 11, 2020 17:50:27 GMT 1 Dice said:

I think history has shown that banksy is an expert at limiting his market

If a popular artist with a good following and market share Options are Releasing limited art In the form of followIng stik and banksy Business module and have a few years of low return as an artist followed by an unimaginable market value and return as an artist or gps Prints business module and consistently flood the market which creates high but short term results for the artist

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2020 19:38:06 GMT 1 Icesay said:

Oct 11, 2020 19:05:59 GMT 1 @boxillrob said:

WOW! So deep and insightful. 

You should sell the entire set to me for £700 and self flagellate for having made a profit. 

Oh and also I paid £700 so if I sold to you I wouldn't make a profit. Perhaps read before posting. 🤣😅😆

Exactly. Profit is evil. Boo to capitalism 

[irl1]

Oct 11, 2020 21:31:08 GMT 1 @boxillrob said:

Oct 11, 2020 19:41:48 GMT 1 stikfan said:

What happened to your old log in. Did you upset the management?

Turns out there is one untouchable artist on here. You will notice all my posts regarding “her” were deleted 

That's what you get for throwing the leg over Mrs Banksy