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Post by danvnuk on Dec 21, 2006 12:20:00 GMT 1
Ok - Im strolling along chatting to my GF about the days events (Hello Judgement Day etc ;D ) on the way to a meal last night - and we get round to discussing Banksys Flag which Ive just got back from the framers (Looks great - I'll post a pic tonight)
Now - to me, this image has quite a subtle message compared to some of his previous work - in fact Im not entirely sure I know what what the message is?
Is it a positive image, are the bedraggled US youth still upholding the american dream?
Is it a negative image - have the proud and patriotric US Marines raising the flag been replaced by an underclass of street kids who care nought for the American ideal?
Are the poor more representive of America than the Patriotic symbolism?
Members of the forum - share you thoughts ;D
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Post by Guest on Dec 21, 2006 12:33:29 GMT 1
The original Iowo Jima photo represented victory, maybe it's been turned on it's head and this represents victory to street protesters.
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Post by MrStatic on Dec 21, 2006 12:53:51 GMT 1
To many it means an easy buck on eBay  |
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Post by danvnuk on Dec 21, 2006 12:57:31 GMT 1
Hmmmm Im not sure - its not an easy one to pin down.
You've got children on a burnt out car, holding aloft the stars and stripes in a pastiche of the famous US Marine image symbolising American Victory.
Hmmmmm <strokes chin in an intellectual way denoting huge intelligence>
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Post by Guest on Dec 21, 2006 12:58:06 GMT 1
To many it means an easy buck on eBay LOL ;D |
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Post by notaste on Dec 21, 2006 13:35:00 GMT 1
It's an interesting question.
I was wondering if Banksy's work is becoming more lo-brow and less intelligent - is it a joke on the people who buy his work?
as his appeal becomes more mainstream.
or do you think he will suddenly make a change and develop some intelligent social comment with more than one layer of irony?
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Post by Guest on Dec 21, 2006 13:40:59 GMT 1
Most artists like to talk about and explain their art, (it's an important part of an fine art degree) unfortunately Banksy doesn't hand us these explanations on a plate (although some pieces are obvious anyway) it would be nice to see a section on Banksy's website for his thoughts.
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Post by rolyateel on Dec 21, 2006 14:18:26 GMT 1
i think it's more to do with the situation that the USA finds itself in (yet again)
Currently spunking billions of $$$ on a pointelss war in a foreign country whilst some of it's population live below the breadline in the ghetto's...and the irony is that a high percentage of the people fighting the war on behalf of Bush, are probably from those very areas.
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Post by rolyateel on Dec 21, 2006 14:22:43 GMT 1
...or maybe it's something to do with hurricane Katrina and the way it left those in the poorest areas worse of (yet again) whist those who were richer (& whiter) got more help....and how the poorer are gradually getting their lives back together with minial help from FEMA or any other part of the Gov't
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Post by alvington89 on Dec 21, 2006 14:31:12 GMT 1
It's obvious really... The car represents SG. The flag represents the print and the clamouring youths represent the ebay scalpers.
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Post by juliecat on Dec 21, 2006 14:52:30 GMT 1
i think it's more to do with the situation that the USA finds itself in (yet again) Currently spunking billions of $$$ on a pointelss war in a foreign country whilst some of it's population live below the breadline in the ghetto's...and the irony is that a high percentage of the people fighting the war on behalf of Bush, are probably from those very areas. I normally avoid ascribing definite meanings to images, as the very nature of the beast invites mult-level interpretations. However the above description "nail on head" |
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Post by notaste on Dec 21, 2006 15:06:44 GMT 1
The Michael Jackson outside the Handsel and Gretle house represents the UK housing market situation. The 2 children represent first - time buyers. Michael Jackson represents the other guy who owns the house.
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fecam
2 Star Member
Posts: 346
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Post by fecam on Dec 21, 2006 15:22:21 GMT 1
Isn't this print another rip-off of another artists work?
Cheap tat if you ask me.
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Post by notaste on Dec 21, 2006 15:29:31 GMT 1
HOW DARE YOU!!!
as if Banksy would rip-off another person's art, concept or idea???
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Post by danvnuk on Dec 21, 2006 15:40:31 GMT 1
i think it's more to do with the situation that the USA finds itself in (yet again) Currently spunking billions of $$$ on a pointelss war in a foreign country whilst some of it's population live below the breadline in the ghetto's...and the irony is that a high percentage of the people fighting the war on behalf of Bush, are probably from those very areas. I normally avoid ascribing definite meanings to images, as the very nature of the beast invites mult-level interpretations. However the above description "nail on head" Yes, I think I thats the best interpretation so far. So in this case, the Stars and Stripes represents The US Government and the war - the establishment, the kids are the underclass being neglected and asked to fight in the war - but gaining nothing from it. So its a negative image then. |
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fecam
2 Star Member
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Post by fecam on Dec 21, 2006 16:38:12 GMT 1
HOW DARE YOU!!! as if Banksy would rip-off another person's art, concept or idea??? OK - I got it a little wrong - he ripped off a famous photo Quote from thisislondon.co.uk: The print for sale today was also satirical - a spoof of the famous photograph of US soldiers raising the Stars and Stripes at Iwo Jima. The Hansel and Gretal was also a rip off of another painting with a very cheap dig at Wacko Jacko. |
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fecam
2 Star Member
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Post by fecam on Dec 21, 2006 16:55:07 GMT 1
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Post by Jonnybreaks on Dec 21, 2006 17:12:41 GMT 1
see this made me laugh and i find laughing to be a good thing! ;D |
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Post by stingray on Dec 21, 2006 17:15:34 GMT 1
Maybe Banksy has a deal with Warner Bros to promote the new Clint Eastwood movie - Flags of Our Fathers? www.flagsofourfathers.com/Look out for Banksy's amazing Rocky Balboa print due out next month... Only available from Pictures on Walls and you local Odeon ;D |
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Post by thwaites on Dec 21, 2006 17:20:22 GMT 1
HOW DARE YOU!!! as if Banksy would rip-off another person's art, concept or idea??? OK - I got it a little wrong - he ripped off a famous photo Quote from thisislondon.co.uk: The print for sale today was also satirical - a spoof of the famous photograph of US soldiers raising the Stars and Stripes at Iwo Jima. The Hansel and Gretal was also a rip off of another painting with a very cheap dig at Wacko Jacko. What exactly do you mean by rip off? |
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Post by damullae on Dec 21, 2006 17:45:44 GMT 1
Its called humour. Which is why Banksy appeals to so many, im my opinion its much more interesting looking at his work than at paintings of people having pinics in the outback...... borrring. PS: the cows love the attention |
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Post by Ågentßacardi on Dec 21, 2006 18:55:34 GMT 1
Isn't this print another rip-off of another artists work? Cheap tat if you ask me. Don't think 'rip off' is the right word, nor the intention. I think 'satire' fits better. And there's a huge difference. I'm a huge fan of situationism and detournement, and a lot of Banksy's work has been done in that style, which I think is really smart and makes a poignant statement. He takes a classic, and 'remixes' it, giving it a spin that makes it more relevant and descriptive of current events, usually topping it off with humor... and that's the statement. Sort of like saying "Hey, look at where were were, and look at how we everything turned out instead". It's definitely *not* a 'rip off'. A rip off would be taking the idea from another artist and reproducing it as your own, making no changes other than artistic stylings, and not making any statements or giving out any messages whatsoever other than the fact that the artist has a complete lack of creativity and scruples. As for the meaning of Flag, I think my favorite explanation so far as been very well put by numusic from another thread: "I think it's perhaps one of, if not thee, strongest image he's ever created. Out of all his Canvas works he's produced it's the one that can stand it's own next to some of the 20th century greats. It comes from a long tradition of a proud underclass fighting the ruling classes, this isn't just a contemporary Americana image, but a truly relevant piece that slots into art history. The stars and stripes is now one of the most recognised images in the world. The flag belongs to us all now, so in that sense it becomes more than a parochial image of defiance against Bush etc. It symbolises the strength of humanity over 'systems'. A truly astonishing piece of work IMO, and one that i'd gladly travel the length and breadth of the world to see in a museum at some point, let alone own a print of it. I think it will become a defining image for our generation. His prints may have taken a step down since his early stencil pieces, but his 'art' has definitely taken a step up. We should be proud that we own a piece of this guys work because long after the hype and print nonsense has died down, there'll be a body of work for generations to look upon and study and appreciate and in some cases, marvel about." Of course, art has a myriad facets, and many many different interpretations can be drawn, and this is merely one of them. And that's the wonderful thing about art, IMO!  |
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Post by notitle on Dec 21, 2006 18:59:29 GMT 1
Well said!
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robo
2 Star Member
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Post by robo on Dec 21, 2006 20:25:57 GMT 1
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pastiepie
2 Star Member
Master of the Universe
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Post by pastiepie on Dec 22, 2006 1:20:54 GMT 1
I wonder how they got the flag in the Clint Eastwood flick to look the same as the photo? I think it must be a cardboard cutout to get it to look like it's blowing in the breeze the same way.
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Post by juliecat on Dec 26, 2006 19:48:49 GMT 1
Isn't this print another rip-off of another artists work? Cheap tat if you ask me. Don't think 'rip off' is the right word, nor the intention. I think 'satire' fits better. And there's a huge difference. I'm a huge fan of situationism and detournement, and a lot of Banksy's work has been done in that style, which I think is really smart and makes a poignant statement. He takes a classic, and 'remixes' it, giving it a spin that makes it more relevant and descriptive of current events, usually topping it off with humor... and that's the statement. Sort of like saying "Hey, look at where were were, and look at how we everything turned out instead". It's definitely *not* a 'rip off'. A rip off would be taking the idea from another artist and reproducing it as your own, making no changes other than artistic stylings, and not making any statements or giving out any messages whatsoever other than the fact that the artist has a complete lack of creativity and scruples. As for the meaning of Flag, I think my favorite explanation so far as been very well put by numusic from another thread: "I think it's perhaps one of, if not thee, strongest image he's ever created. Out of all his Canvas works he's produced it's the one that can stand it's own next to some of the 20th century greats. It comes from a long tradition of a proud underclass fighting the ruling classes, this isn't just a contemporary Americana image, but a truly relevant piece that slots into art history. The stars and stripes is now one of the most recognised images in the world. The flag belongs to us all now, so in that sense it becomes more than a parochial image of defiance against Bush etc. It symbolises the strength of humanity over 'systems'. A truly astonishing piece of work IMO, and one that i'd gladly travel the length and breadth of the world to see in a museum at some point, let alone own a print of it. I think it will become a defining image for our generation. His prints may have taken a step down since his early stencil pieces, but his 'art' has definitely taken a step up. We should be proud that we own a piece of this guys work because long after the hype and print nonsense has died down, there'll be a body of work for generations to look upon and study and appreciate and in some cases, marvel about." Of course, art has a myriad facets, and many many different interpretations can be drawn, and this is merely one of them. And that's the wonderful thing about art, IMO! spot on. |
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Post by goingblankagain200 on Dec 26, 2006 20:26:45 GMT 1
National flags = victory and empire. I felt it was the nature of the victory that was being disputed. So, you may have an army that can nuke the hell out of any given city but can't control, feed or provide proper medical care for your own population. You may be able to invade Iraq within 48 hours but you can't evacuate New Orleans within three weeks. The stronger we are the weaker we become.
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