disturbart
New Member
Posts โข 742
Likes โข 294
September 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by disturbart on Oct 23, 2017 11:22:26 GMT 1, Are these genuine posters from back then or repros?
Are these genuine posters from back then or repros?
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kjg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,083
Likes โข 5,734
December 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by kjg on Oct 23, 2017 15:02:18 GMT 1, Are these genuine posters from back then or repros?
They are all genuine.
Are these genuine posters from back then or repros? They are all genuine.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by met on Oct 23, 2017 15:59:36 GMT 1, Nice find! I have a signed Calder litho that I love. Do you know if these are actual stone lithos? Iโve got my eye on one. I picked up a couple of the lesser expensive ones to get a feel for whether I should pick up more. 8 euro for an original Calder stone litho is a great deal, I donโt care if itโs from an open edition of 20,000. Thanks for posting this deal. As it happens Iโm in Paris right now, Iโll stop by the gallery if I can. For the avoidance of doubt, these are offset lithographs, the photomechanical process commonly used for printing posters, postcards, books, etc.
They are not artisanal / hand lithographs produced with a stone or plate.
Nice find! I have a signed Calder litho that I love. Do you know if these are actual stone lithos? Iโve got my eye on one. I picked up a couple of the lesser expensive ones to get a feel for whether I should pick up more. 8 euro for an original Calder stone litho is a great deal, I donโt care if itโs from an open edition of 20,000. Thanks for posting this deal. As it happens Iโm in Paris right now, Iโll stop by the gallery if I can. For the avoidance of doubt, these are offset lithographs, the photomechanical process commonly used for printing posters, postcards, books, etc. They are not artisanal / hand lithographs produced with a stone or plate.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 23, 2017 16:19:22 GMT 1, Nice find! I have a signed Calder litho that I love. Do you know if these are actual stone lithos? Iโve got my eye on one. I picked up a couple of the lesser expensive ones to get a feel for whether I should pick up more. 8 euro for an original Calder stone litho is a great deal, I donโt care if itโs from an open edition of 20,000. Thanks for posting this deal. As it happens Iโm in Paris right now, Iโll stop by the gallery if I can. For the avoidance of doubt, these are offset lithographs, the photomechanical process commonly used for printing posters, postcards, books, etc. They are not artisanal / hand lithographs produced with a stone or plate.
May I ask where you found this information? I have not found a source confirming the printing method for the posters.
As for the DLMs, these from what Iโve found some are indeed โartisanal hand lithographsโ and printed on varying ways among varying artists.
If you have sources for your references that would be great.
Nice find! I have a signed Calder litho that I love. Do you know if these are actual stone lithos? Iโve got my eye on one. I picked up a couple of the lesser expensive ones to get a feel for whether I should pick up more. 8 euro for an original Calder stone litho is a great deal, I donโt care if itโs from an open edition of 20,000. Thanks for posting this deal. As it happens Iโm in Paris right now, Iโll stop by the gallery if I can. For the avoidance of doubt, these are offset lithographs, the photomechanical process commonly used for printing posters, postcards, books, etc. They are not artisanal / hand lithographs produced with a stone or plate. May I ask where you found this information? I have not found a source confirming the printing method for the posters. As for the DLMs, these from what Iโve found some are indeed โartisanal hand lithographsโ and printed on varying ways among varying artists. If you have sources for your references that would be great.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Villain Dillon on Oct 23, 2017 17:05:55 GMT 1, I have no doubt (nor sources) that the โฌ8 poster is not a stone litho just from the price-point, and I purchased one. I still think it'll look great and be a nice vintage show poster from the 70'.
I have no doubt (nor sources) that the โฌ8 poster is not a stone litho just from the price-point, and I purchased one. I still think it'll look great and be a nice vintage show poster from the 70'.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 23, 2017 17:14:22 GMT 1, I have no doubt (nor sources) that the โฌ8 poster is not a stone litho just from the price-point, and I purchased one. I still think it'll look great and be a nice vintage show poster from the 70'.
I agree with this. Just wondering if someone had any info on the printing process. Either way these are original lithograph posters. Once mine arrive Iโll post about the quality, which Iโm assuming and hoping :-) will be top notch compared to a standard poster.
Posters were a bonus find for me. The DLMs were what First drew my attention. And I can attest that they are beautiful.
I have no doubt (nor sources) that the โฌ8 poster is not a stone litho just from the price-point, and I purchased one. I still think it'll look great and be a nice vintage show poster from the 70'. I agree with this. Just wondering if someone had any info on the printing process. Either way these are original lithograph posters. Once mine arrive Iโll post about the quality, which Iโm assuming and hoping :-) will be top notch compared to a standard poster. Posters were a bonus find for me. The DLMs were what First drew my attention. And I can attest that they are beautiful.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by maddoghoek100 on Oct 23, 2017 18:28:52 GMT 1, DERRIรRE LE MIROIR was an art magazine for the gallery back in the day. It was an art magazine, so the runs were definitely not huge. I do see these around the bay in various condition for a few hundred ask with the cut out prints and cover prints going for 50 bucks or so. I dont know if they sell. You will always see these cut up in frame shops and "galleries" for several hundred to just under 1K, usually advertised as plate signed. There were multiple printings on some, and it looks like there are very up front in their listing if it is the first edition or a later reprinting. The are a nice thing as part of the history,
I did not see you mention, there are also a Matisse issue that is quite nice, but looks like they only have the second edition in stock. The Ellsworth Kellys are notable as well, but overpriced.
So think of it like a modern VNA magazine with a limited edition cover.
As to the show posters, they are a really nice piece of art history if you enjoy such things (which i do). I picked up a nice Richard Serra for like 8 bucks in the same vein. If i remember where i will post it.
PRICING EDIT: some of the big numbers on the Miro and Chagall got me wondering what the market looks like for these and they seem WAY overpriced. At 45 the calders are a nice deal, but any of these that they have at big numbers seems to be available through ebay and other rare book sellers at much lower prices. As always condition matters and it is possible that they may be worth those numbers parted out, but to me parted out they are more like estate sale and flea market fodder for people who see the name and think they are making some huge find. To me they seem much more interesting for the full historical context as old cool things.
DERRIรRE LE MIROIR was an art magazine for the gallery back in the day. It was an art magazine, so the runs were definitely not huge. I do see these around the bay in various condition for a few hundred ask with the cut out prints and cover prints going for 50 bucks or so. I dont know if they sell. You will always see these cut up in frame shops and "galleries" for several hundred to just under 1K, usually advertised as plate signed. There were multiple printings on some, and it looks like there are very up front in their listing if it is the first edition or a later reprinting. The are a nice thing as part of the history,
I did not see you mention, there are also a Matisse issue that is quite nice, but looks like they only have the second edition in stock. The Ellsworth Kellys are notable as well, but overpriced.
So think of it like a modern VNA magazine with a limited edition cover.
As to the show posters, they are a really nice piece of art history if you enjoy such things (which i do). I picked up a nice Richard Serra for like 8 bucks in the same vein. If i remember where i will post it.
PRICING EDIT: some of the big numbers on the Miro and Chagall got me wondering what the market looks like for these and they seem WAY overpriced. At 45 the calders are a nice deal, but any of these that they have at big numbers seems to be available through ebay and other rare book sellers at much lower prices. As always condition matters and it is possible that they may be worth those numbers parted out, but to me parted out they are more like estate sale and flea market fodder for people who see the name and think they are making some huge find. To me they seem much more interesting for the full historical context as old cool things.
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rockbeer
New Member
Posts โข 363
Likes โข 444
May 2006
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by rockbeer on Oct 23, 2017 19:53:21 GMT 1, Some of the DLMs, at least, are reprints - especially the earlier ones, as far as I can gather - and are marked as such (Rรฉimpression).
Some of the DLMs, at least, are reprints - especially the earlier ones, as far as I can gather - and are marked as such (Rรฉimpression).
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Love Is In The Air on Oct 23, 2017 21:54:20 GMT 1, I bought the cover of the Francis Bacon DLM about five years back for about ยฃ20 and then sold if on for about ยฃ100 when I got skint. Quality of that was great and looked nice framed up. I see now on the site the full 8 page Bacon copy in new condition is ยฃ1200. Bit steep for me but for people buying the DLM at the other end of the scale at ยฃ50 I think you are getting a great quality bargain and the Litho pages look great on the wall.
I bought the cover of the Francis Bacon DLM about five years back for about ยฃ20 and then sold if on for about ยฃ100 when I got skint. Quality of that was great and looked nice framed up. I see now on the site the full 8 page Bacon copy in new condition is ยฃ1200. Bit steep for me but for people buying the DLM at the other end of the scale at ยฃ50 I think you are getting a great quality bargain and the Litho pages look great on the wall.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by maddoghoek100 on Oct 23, 2017 22:11:59 GMT 1, Good post and it really did prompt me to think hard on a best buy, because they are off market on some of these. The Calders at 45 are nice. and i think the pic of the litter was:
CHAGALL Marc: DERRIรRE LE MIROIR Nยฐ27/28 www.maeght.com/editions/article.asp?id_selection=8&id=1217
At 30 Euro i think i just bought the last one. A repop and fewer images. But seems like a nice one.
Good post and it really did prompt me to think hard on a best buy, because they are off market on some of these. The Calders at 45 are nice. and i think the pic of the litter was: CHAGALL Marc: DERRIรRE LE MIROIR Nยฐ27/28 www.maeght.com/editions/article.asp?id_selection=8&id=1217At 30 Euro i think i just bought the last one. A repop and fewer images. But seems like a nice one.
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nobokov
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,893
Likes โข 6,819
February 2016
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by nobokov on Oct 23, 2017 22:55:31 GMT 1, Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these?
Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these?
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Pawel
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,742
Likes โข 3,234
June 2015
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Pawel on Oct 23, 2017 23:06:58 GMT 1, Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these? Not to mention 10 GBP soup cans.
Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these? Not to mention 10 GBP soup cans.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by maddoghoek100 on Oct 23, 2017 23:25:44 GMT 1, Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these?
I think there is always interest in interesting things. Vintage gallery exhibition posters are an interesting thing. I would agree that they are fairly priced between 10 and 30 bucks. I don't think we should be overselling the magazines. A good buy at 45, and shipping is high if you buy just one so grabbing a few could be smart... If you like vintage things. They can not and should not be compared to the signed numbered editions of the era. People on eBay selling them as plate signed lithos are realy preying on people who don't know very much, which is not cool. The full magazines being sold as is fully described to knowledgeable buys do sell for 200, making 45+shipping an attractive buy. That said if they were offering an invader silkscreened VNA mag for 45 euro I assume they would have excited takers. This is not much different.
Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these? I think there is always interest in interesting things. Vintage gallery exhibition posters are an interesting thing. I would agree that they are fairly priced between 10 and 30 bucks. I don't think we should be overselling the magazines. A good buy at 45, and shipping is high if you buy just one so grabbing a few could be smart... If you like vintage things. They can not and should not be compared to the signed numbered editions of the era. People on eBay selling them as plate signed lithos are realy preying on people who don't know very much, which is not cool. The full magazines being sold as is fully described to knowledgeable buys do sell for 200, making 45+shipping an attractive buy. That said if they were offering an invader silkscreened VNA mag for 45 euro I assume they would have excited takers. This is not much different.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 23, 2017 23:44:57 GMT 1, Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these? I think there is always interest in interesting things. Vintage gallery exhibition posters are an interesting thing. I would agree that they are fairly priced between 10 and 30 bucks. I don't think we should be overselling the magazines. A good buy at 45, and shipping is high if you buy just one so grabbing a few could be smart... If you like vintage things. They can not and should not be compared to the signed numbered editions of the era. People on eBay selling them as plate signed lithos are realy preying on people who don't know very much. That said if they were offering an invader silkscreened VNA mag for 45 euro I assume they would have excited takers. This is not much different.
In my opinion $60 for an original lithograph (make that 8 original lithographs) created by Alexander Calder for the sole purpose of the issue is more then โa good buyโ. I wouldnโt call that โoverselling the magazineโ.
You are right about not comparing them to signed numbered editions of the era.. Those go for thousands to tens of thousands of dollars for one. I picked up 8 (although smaller and โunnumberedโ and unsigned) for $60!
The posters are a different story. I think some are more well priced then others. Iโll update when they arrive but Iโm assuming the quality is much nicer then a cheap off set litho poster you get these days. And Iโve seen museums sell those cheap litho posters for upwards of $50!
For what itโs worth (not much) Iโve seen multiple โsalesโ of these poster for at least double of not triple or 4 times the price on their website.
Why is there a sudden interest in cheap unsigned exhibition posters? 8 Euro for a poster seems about right and not what I would call a great deal. I'd call that accurate pricing. We were touting overpriced basquiat posters and now these? I think there is always interest in interesting things. Vintage gallery exhibition posters are an interesting thing. I would agree that they are fairly priced between 10 and 30 bucks. I don't think we should be overselling the magazines. A good buy at 45, and shipping is high if you buy just one so grabbing a few could be smart... If you like vintage things. They can not and should not be compared to the signed numbered editions of the era. People on eBay selling them as plate signed lithos are realy preying on people who don't know very much. That said if they were offering an invader silkscreened VNA mag for 45 euro I assume they would have excited takers. This is not much different. In my opinion $60 for an original lithograph (make that 8 original lithographs) created by Alexander Calder for the sole purpose of the issue is more then โa good buyโ. I wouldnโt call that โoverselling the magazineโ. You are right about not comparing them to signed numbered editions of the era.. Those go for thousands to tens of thousands of dollars for one. I picked up 8 (although smaller and โunnumberedโ and unsigned) for $60! The posters are a different story. I think some are more well priced then others. Iโll update when they arrive but Iโm assuming the quality is much nicer then a cheap off set litho poster you get these days. And Iโve seen museums sell those cheap litho posters for upwards of $50! For what itโs worth (not much) Iโve seen multiple โsalesโ of these poster for at least double of not triple or 4 times the price on their website.
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 24, 2017 14:07:31 GMT 1, For anyone interested in seeing some more from the Calder DLM I first picked up:
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Dust Buster
New Member
Posts โข 286
Likes โข 287
March 2017
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Dust Buster on Oct 26, 2017 18:24:26 GMT 1, Ok so I havenโt made it to the gallery yet but I do plan to stop by in the next day or two. If you have any specific questions let me know and Iโll try to ask them. I personally am tempted by a couple of the Kelly prints.
Ok so I havenโt made it to the gallery yet but I do plan to stop by in the next day or two. If you have any specific questions let me know and Iโll try to ask them. I personally am tempted by a couple of the Kelly prints.
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kjg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,083
Likes โข 5,734
December 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by kjg on Oct 27, 2017 5:54:35 GMT 1, Ok so I havenโt made it to the gallery yet but I do plan to stop by in the next day or two. If you have any specific questions let me know and Iโll try to ask them. I personally am tempted by a couple of the Kelly prints.
I am very curious about the overall quality of the lithoโs, e.g. the paper they used, the vibrancy of the colours etc.
Ok so I havenโt made it to the gallery yet but I do plan to stop by in the next day or two. If you have any specific questions let me know and Iโll try to ask them. I personally am tempted by a couple of the Kelly prints. I am very curious about the overall quality of the lithoโs, e.g. the paper they used, the vibrancy of the colours etc.
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Dust Buster
New Member
Posts โข 286
Likes โข 287
March 2017
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Dust Buster on Oct 27, 2017 17:38:37 GMT 1, I hesitate to recount all of what went down in the gallery. The guy who was helping me didnโt seem to know everything about these prints, and I wasnโt completely sure if all of his yes answers were informed or assumed. I can say with near certainty that lithographie original means itโs a real plate litho but doesnโt necessarily mean itโs from an original edition. The Calders for example seem to be from a 1999 edition. From which plates I do not know at this point.
The prints are nice. The Miro show lithos are very nice, and seem to be original printings as dated on the web site. I picked one up. Quality in general is very nice, even with the offset lithos. Not museum gift shop posters but several steps up. I picked up a Kelly that seems to be a much later printing that I wonโt hesitate to hang up.
I think itโs worth confirming the factual info if anyone wants to go further. I didnโt leave totally on board with what the guy was telling me, not that he was trying to be dishonest, just that he didnโt totally know.
I hesitate to recount all of what went down in the gallery. The guy who was helping me didnโt seem to know everything about these prints, and I wasnโt completely sure if all of his yes answers were informed or assumed. I can say with near certainty that lithographie original means itโs a real plate litho but doesnโt necessarily mean itโs from an original edition. The Calders for example seem to be from a 1999 edition. From which plates I do not know at this point.
The prints are nice. The Miro show lithos are very nice, and seem to be original printings as dated on the web site. I picked one up. Quality in general is very nice, even with the offset lithos. Not museum gift shop posters but several steps up. I picked up a Kelly that seems to be a much later printing that I wonโt hesitate to hang up.
I think itโs worth confirming the factual info if anyone wants to go further. I didnโt leave totally on board with what the guy was telling me, not that he was trying to be dishonest, just that he didnโt totally know.
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disturbart
New Member
Posts โข 742
Likes โข 294
September 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by disturbart on Oct 27, 2017 18:15:59 GMT 1, Received my Calders today. Ordered 4 posters in total. All Badly damaged through poor packing. Even the invoices looked like it had been screwed up and just jammed in. Ive asked for replacements to be sent. Also don't think these are that old. Look new to me
and invoice even worse
Received my Calders today. Ordered 4 posters in total. All Badly damaged through poor packing. Even the invoices looked like it had been screwed up and just jammed in. Ive asked for replacements to be sent. Also don't think these are that old. Look new to me and invoice even worse
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Dust Buster
New Member
Posts โข 286
Likes โข 287
March 2017
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Dust Buster on Oct 27, 2017 18:23:21 GMT 1, The Stabiles print looked old to me. The rest are probably from a 1999 edition.
The Stabiles print looked old to me. The rest are probably from a 1999 edition.
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kjg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,083
Likes โข 5,734
December 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by kjg on Oct 27, 2017 19:10:05 GMT 1, I just received my Derriรจre Le Miroir No. 212. The quality of this edition is everything I hoped for. Great stuff!
Iโm very tempted to buy some more editions, or maybe a poster.
I just received my Derriรจre Le Miroir No. 212. The quality of this edition is everything I hoped for. Great stuff!
Iโm very tempted to buy some more editions, or maybe a poster.
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kjg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,083
Likes โข 5,734
December 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by kjg on Oct 27, 2017 19:17:27 GMT 1, Received my Calders today. Ordered 4 posters in total. All Badly damaged through poor packing. Even the invoices looked like it had been screwed up and just jammed in. Ive asked for replacements to be sent. Also don't think these are that old. Look new to me and invoice even worse
That looks really bad. The packaging of my edition was impacable. Hopefully you get a refund!
Received my Calders today. Ordered 4 posters in total. All Badly damaged through poor packing. Even the invoices looked like it had been screwed up and just jammed in. Ive asked for replacements to be sent. Also don't think these are that old. Look new to me and invoice even worse That looks really bad. The packaging of my edition was impacable. Hopefully you get a refund!
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 27, 2017 19:50:38 GMT 1, I just received my Derriรจre Le Miroir No. 212. The quality of this edition is everything I hoped for. Great stuff! Iโm very tempted to buy some more editions, or maybe a poster.
My DLM was packed greatly too.
Letโs see some photos. The DLM issues are incredible.
I just received my Derriรจre Le Miroir No. 212. The quality of this edition is everything I hoped for. Great stuff! Iโm very tempted to buy some more editions, or maybe a poster. My DLM was packed greatly too. Letโs see some photos. The DLM issues are incredible.
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kjg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,083
Likes โข 5,734
December 2014
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by kjg on Oct 27, 2017 22:05:38 GMT 1, I just received my Derriรจre Le Miroir No. 212. The quality of this edition is everything I hoped for. Great stuff! Iโm very tempted to buy some more editions, or maybe a poster. My DLM was packed greatly too. Letโs see some photos. The DLM issues are incredible. Yes, will do in the morning. They even smell great :-)
I just received my Derriรจre Le Miroir No. 212. The quality of this edition is everything I hoped for. Great stuff! Iโm very tempted to buy some more editions, or maybe a poster. My DLM was packed greatly too. Letโs see some photos. The DLM issues are incredible. Yes, will do in the morning. They even smell great :-)
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turntored
New Member
Posts โข 524
Likes โข 966
December 2016
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by turntored on Oct 28, 2017 0:14:13 GMT 1, If anyone is interested in the Yvon Lambert Basquiat at the original cost then send me a message. Bought too much lately so happy to sell it at my cost plus shipping/PayPal fees.
If anyone is interested in the Yvon Lambert Basquiat at the original cost then send me a message. Bought too much lately so happy to sell it at my cost plus shipping/PayPal fees.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Deleted on Oct 28, 2017 0:20:41 GMT 1, If anyone is interested in the Yvon Lambert Basquiat at the original cost then send me a message. Bought too much lately so happy to sell it at my cost plus shipping/PayPal fees. 1st or second printing?
If anyone is interested in the Yvon Lambert Basquiat at the original cost then send me a message. Bought too much lately so happy to sell it at my cost plus shipping/PayPal fees. 1st or second printing?
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,596
Likes โข 1,073
November 2016
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Jaylove on Oct 28, 2017 1:16:35 GMT 1, If anyone is interested in the Yvon Lambert Basquiat at the original cost then send me a message. Bought too much lately so happy to sell it at my cost plus shipping/PayPal fees. This is how you do it. GLWTS!
If anyone is interested in the Yvon Lambert Basquiat at the original cost then send me a message. Bought too much lately so happy to sell it at my cost plus shipping/PayPal fees. This is how you do it. GLWTS!
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Dahmer
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,127
Likes โข 1,077
October 2016
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UAA Exclusive "Drop" Thread , by Dahmer on Oct 28, 2017 10:24:43 GMT 1, if those basquiet posters were signed id give my left nut for one, but i dont think they are sadly
if those basquiet posters were signed id give my left nut for one, but i dont think they are sadly
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